Two week old Tomix E2 Yamabiko dead

[sandiway]

I recently returned from Osaka with a 10 car Tomix Tokohu Shinkansen. I installed lighting in it while I was in Osaka. It's the Yamabiko, just one motor. Happily running on the middle loop (no points) on my table top layout every day. Totally reliable. Anyway, this morning, it was dead.

 

I tried vacuuming the wheels. Still the Tomix controller threw a red light. I'm so sad and my 2 year old son too 🙂. It's practically brand new.

 

(The track is ok, confirmed with another train.)

 

How do I go about debugging this motor? And how can I order a new/spare motor? Thanks very much!

[cteno4]

Have you tried runnig just the motor car w.o the shell and lights? 

 

Might try popping off the trucks and use some probes or bare wires apply power directly to the exposed board pickups or lighting contacts to see if the motor spins. Sometimes a bit of grit can get caught in the truck gears and totally stop it. If the motor spins then try moving the gear on top to the trucks and see if it turns the wheels easily.

 

no changes other than just running it one night and stopping it and trying to start the next morning and it didn’t run, right? That’s an odd one and only thing there i can think of is it got really hot and then seized up.

 

jeff

 

 

[chadbag]

1 hour ago, sandiway said:

Still the Tomix controller threw a red light.

 

 

 

I am not familiar with the Tomix controller.  Is this a short-circuit detected type thing where it shows a red light when a short is detected?

 

[sandiway]

4 hours ago, cteno4 said:

Have you tried runnig just the motor car w.o the shell and lights? 

 

Yeah, tried that. Still the red light - indicating a short? as chadbag suggested.

[sandiway]

4 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

Might try popping off the trucks and use some probes or bare wires apply power directly to the exposed board pickups or lighting contacts to see if the motor spins.

 

Er, dumb question here. How do I remove the trucks/bogies? I don’t see any screws here.

[railsquid]

29 minutes ago, sandiway said:

Er, dumb question here. How do I remove the trucks/bogies? I don’t see any screws here.

 

On newer Tomix models (which I assume this is), you can usually (carefully) pull them out. There should be an instructions sheet with a diagram indicating how it's done.

 

On older models you'll probably need to dismantle the chassis.

[katoftw]

Most trains with power bogies need the bogie tilted to one side, then a light pull to remove it out of the housing.

[gavino200]

Thinking back to my first N scale Shinkansen - a Kato E5, I remember most of the difficulty revolved about the difficulty of taking it apart and re-assembling it without damaging. This becomes somewhat intuitive when you've done this many times, but it's totally baffling at first. I strongly recommend you take a photo of the loco at EVERY stage of the disassembly. Usually once the model is disassembled the problem is obvious or easy to troubleshoot.

[JR 500系]

Yes a red light indicated a circuit fault somewhere... Could you try removing the interior lights and just running the motor on its own, without the shell and the light?

 

Judging from that sticker on the bottom of the car, was it bought as brand new? 

 

the bogies can be removed easily by pushing it to one side, detaching it, and then pulling it out from the other side... I think a diagram will help here:

 

 

[railsquid]

44 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

Thinking back to my first N scale Shinkansen - a Kato E5, I remember most of the difficulty revolved about the difficulty of taking it apart and re-assembling it without damaging. This becomes somewhat intuitive when you've done this many times, but it's totally baffling at first. I strongly recommend you take a photo of the loco at EVERY stage of the disassembly. Usually once the model is disassembled the problem is obvious or easy to troubleshoot.

 

This. And keep some kind of hard-to-knock-over container around to store any bits which fall of (e.g. bogie contact springs).

[sandiway]

1 hour ago, JR 500系 said:

Yes a red light indicated a circuit fault somewhere... Could you try removing the interior lights and just running the motor on its own, without the shell and the light?

 

Judging from that sticker on the bottom of the car, was it bought as brand new? 

 

the bogies can be removed easily by pushing it to one side, detaching it, and then pulling it out from the other side... I think a diagram will help here:

Thanks for the diagram. That's correct. I should have looked on the sheet first.

 

That sticker is mine. I number and write down the cars on my trains. So yes it's new. And yes the motor on its own causes a fault.

[sandiway]

  Thanks to JR 500系, I've disassembled it. See enclosed pics.

 

The bogies are fine. The gears turn. Nothing is stuck in there. I ran them manually on the track and confirmed there is no short in them.

 

I ran the motor alone without the bogies using a pair of wires from the track as cteno4 suggested. It throws a fault immediately. I can turn the motor using the flywheels manually. But there is a short in the motor.

 

Now, can I order this motor car (E226-1321(M)) by itself?

Or I should order Tomix 92575, the 3 car 基本 basic set?

 https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/products/n/92575.html

Edited August 18, 2018 by sandiway

[katoftw]

Tomix offer both the motors by themselves. And the chassis with under car parts and bogies.

 

You just need to figure out part numbers.

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, sandiway said:

  Thanks to JR 500系, I've disassembled it. See enclosed pics.

 

The bogies are fine. The gears turn. Nothing is stuck in there. I ran them manually on the track and confirmed there is no short in them.

 

I ran the motor alone without the bogies using a pair of wires from the track as cteno4 suggested. It throws a fault immediately. I can turn the motor using the flywheels manually. But there is a short in the motor.

 

Now, can I order this motor car (E226-1321(M)) by itself?

Or I should order Tomix 92575, the 3 car 基本 basic set?

 https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/products/n/92575.html

 

 

 

 

Have you tried removing the motor from the chassis/body? Then checking to see if it runs? The motor contacts may be shorting through the metal chassis. That can usually be fixed by isolating it with Kapton tape.

[JR 500系]

It's nice of you to share how you are rectifying the problem, it helps others who might encounter the same issue next time themselves! (including myself) 

 

I've checked the Tomix parts catalogue, the motor chassis is part number Tomix 0632 (it's stated for E2 motor) and HS has it on stock fortunately

 

Problem is, according to the parts catalogue, it is for sets 92360 and 92805 but not 92575, though technically they should be the same since they are all for car E226-300... 

 

if you only want just the motor without the other chassis parts, you will need Tomix 0613 the M5-type 3 motor (for shinkansen, 25m body type), but unfortunately it is out of stock...

[Pauljag900]

I needed a motor for a Tomix train last year and I contacted Nariichi at model train plus and he got one for me from Tomix,so may be worth trying him first.👍😀

[Pauljag900]

https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/products/n/0613.html

this is the link to the Tomix page for the motor,as sammy quite rightly suggested.👍😀

[sandiway]

4 hours ago, JR 500系 said:

It's nice of you to share how you are rectifying the problem, it helps others who might encounter the same issue next time themselves! (including myself) 

 

I've checked the Tomix parts catalogue, the motor chassis is part number Tomix 0632 (it's stated for E2 motor) and HS has it on stock fortunately

 

Problem is, according to the parts catalogue, it is for sets 92360 and 92805 but not 92575

It’s nice to receive such great help on this forum! I placed an order immediately - my first time with HS. Hope it’s the right one - looks the same from my cursory inspection.

 

How did you find the motor chassis via the Tomix website?

[railsquid]

4 hours ago, Pauljag900 said:

https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/products/n/0613.html

this is the link to the Tomix page for the motor,as sammy quite rightly suggested.👍😀

 

Ah, that's a motor for the older Shinkansen models:

 

Quote

主な使用形式：新幹線（25mクラス）（旧）

 

It's missing the flywheels which current versions have.

[Pauljag900]

48 minutes ago, railsquid said:

 

Ah, that's a motor for the older Shinkansen models:

 

 

It's missing the flywheels which current versions have.

Ahh,I. Thought it was diferent but was the current replacement,in which case it is nt listed on the Tomix page so the chassis is probably the best option and not too much to pay to have it working I guess

[JR 500系]

2 hours ago, sandiway said:

It’s nice to receive such great help on this forum! I placed an order immediately - my first time with HS. Hope it’s the right one - looks the same from my cursory inspection.

 

How did you find the motor chassis via the Tomix website?

 

No worries! We help each other out with whichever way we can! I have the Tomix parts catalogue, (Tomix 7335), which I feel, is an excellent source of information for parts and their part numbers and what they are used for... I do wish Kato hand one of these too!

 

59 minutes ago, railsquid said:

 

Ah, that's a motor for the older Shinkansen models:

 

 

It's missing the flywheels which current versions have.

 

Ah.. I see ~ I knew something was amiss about it, but it should also work, will it? Then I guess getting the entire chassis will surely make it work, and with a spare chassis (with a likely dead motor) and 2 spare power bogies isn't too high a price to pay ~

[railsquid]

24 minutes ago, JR 500系 said:

Ah.. I see ~ I knew something was amiss about it, but it should also work, will it? Then I guess getting the entire chassis will surely make it work, and with a spare chassis (with a likely dead motor) and 2 spare power bogies isn't too high a price to pay ~

 

Not sure if the motor for the old design would work in the new design; I know the new bogies aren't compatible with the old chassis (they kind of fit but don't rotate properly). It does seem that for modern EMUs the only option is a complete chassis replacement...

 

[gavino200]

3 hours ago, sandiway said:

It’s nice to receive such great help on this forum!

 

This forum rocks! Really, very nice folks.

 

I hate to press you on a point, but did you remove the motor from the metal chassis and check the motor by itself by applying electricity directly to the motor contacts? It's possible that you can have a short circuit if the contacts both touch the metal chassis frame.

 

1. This actually can happen and is an easy fix. (We can guide you).

 

2. You have absolutely nothing to lose as you are committed to buying a new motor anyway. At very least you'll learn from doing it.

 

[sandiway]

19 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

hate to press you on a point, but did you remove the motor from the metal chassis and check the motor by itself by applying electricity directly to the motor contacts? It's possible that you can have a short circuit if the contacts both touch the metal chassis frame.

Not yet. Not sure how to remove the motor but I’ll give it a shot this afternoon. I’ll report back here.

[cteno4]

Sorry one other “is it plugged in” question, have you tried to run another train with the controller since this happened?

 

really odd it just stopped working like that after shutting it down. Never got hot tomthe touch did it after running a while?

 

jeff