Heavy Rail Traction Companies?

[GDorsett]

I see a lot of trams/light rail EMUs, however, I do not see any heavy rail running on streets. Was/is there a place where a company runs small locomotives and rolling stock along streets or docks? Or is this more or less a US only thing? I see models of really small steeplecabs and some boxcabs, but I don't see anything that runs along streets except light-rail EMUs and trams/trolleys.

[kvp]

15 minutes ago, GDorsett said:

I see a lot of trams/light rail EMUs, however, I do not see any heavy rail running on streets. Was/is there a place where a company runs small locomotives and rolling stock along streets or docks? Or is this more or less a US only thing? I see models of really small steeplecabs and some boxcabs, but I don't see anything that runs along streets except light-rail EMUs and trams/trolleys.

If you mean street running trains in Japan, it's very rare and one of the better known examples of light rail emu running on the Enoden is actually officially a really long railroad crossing. Another good example is the Keihan Otsu line metro sets. This line is special as it was a street running light rail / tram line before it was partially undergrounded and it retained a shorter street running section. There was also a shared section on the Inuyama bridge but it was rebuilt.  Otherwise i'm not really aware of any longer street running heavy rail sections, except around ports and factories.

 

ps: a japanese wikipedia article about street running: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/併用軌道#鉄道事業法に基づく併用軌道

[GDorsett]

So, it's been done, but not often and not recently. It's all kept to intermodal yards and ports.
That said, could I get away with a small locomotive (such as an ED61) and a few smaller railcars on a tram layout? Or is that stretching it?

[Densha]

I moved this thread into the Japan Rail discussion forum, as it is not really a model train discussion.

 

The only currently existing sections of track with non-tram rolling stock street running I know of are the Keihan Keishin and Ishiyama-Sakamoto Lines, Enoshima Dentetsu and Kumamoto Dentetsu. In the past many more railway lines did have street running sections though. A few famous examples are the Inuyama Bridge on the Meitetsu Inuyama Line, Meitetsu Gifu interurbans, Fukui Tetsudou, Sanyo Dentetsu, Kintetsu Nara Line, etc. There have been very few street running sections in Japan with 'heavy rail' though.

[Socimi]

Futaku Bridge on the Tokyu Oimachi line. (1927 to 1966)

 

https://www.google.it/search?q=二子橋東急大井町線&rlz=1C1AOHY_itIT769IT769&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwicrpjB3LXcAhWJxaYKHerAAC4Q_AUICigB#imgrc=_

[GDorsett]

Thanks, Densha. Wasn't where to put it.

 

Ah, okay. It seems it's all passenger.

Thank you!

 

I've also seen really small steeplecab locomotives, some only having four wheels, most electric but some diesel. What were these used for? I assumed they'd be used for such street running, but I guess I thought wrong. Would they be used for shunting instead?

Not talking about the ED29, that's bigger than this. Saw a video a couple days ago that was "powered" using a SuNi reefer with a powered chassis in it. If I can find said video or a picture, I will share.

[GDorsett]

This ins't the video I was looking for, but it does have one of these little, two axle steeplecabs.

So, locomotives like this are mainly used for just shunting and industry work?

 

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by GDorsett

[Densha]

What about freight transport on the now abolished Tobu Nikko Tramway Line?

https://umemado.blogspot.com/search/label/東武日光軌道線

 

Or on Wakamatsu Municipal Tramway?

https://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/hideki_kobayakawa/21123848.html

http://tsushima-keibendo.a.la9.jp/wakamatsu/wakamatsu1.html

http://tsushima-keibendo.a.la9.jp/wakamatsu/wakamatsu2.html

http://tsushima-keibendo.a.la9.jp/wakamatsu/wakamatsu3.html

[bill937ca]

2 hours ago, kvp said:

Another good example is the Keihan Otsu line metro sets. This line is special as it was a street running light rail / tram line before it was partially undergrounded and it retained a shorter street running section. 

 

ps: a japanese wikipedia article about street running: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/併用軌道#鉄道事業法に基づく併用軌道

 

My understanding from contact with one of authors of the 80s Electric Railways in Japan series was that anything non standard like this had to be approved by Ministry of Industry, Infrastructure and Transport(name?) and this was a long and expensive venture.  That is one of the prime reasons why many Japanese railways do not venture too far outside the norm. A Ministry restriction on the length of trams and the cultural taboo on breaking off relations with employees, clients etc. keeps the productivity of multi section articulated trams off  most japanese  tram lines, many of which make a profit.  

[bill937ca]

4 minutes ago, GDorsett said:

This ins't the video I was looking for, but it does have one of these little, two axle steeplecabs.

So, locomotives like this are mainly used for just shunting and industry work?

 

 

 

I think you will find this is a battery powered loco at times.

[GDorsett]

yeah, I noticed that about halfway through the video when it left the overheads. That's kind of cool. Never seen that before on anyone's train.

[GDorsett]

Densha, you found some good articles there. Exactly what I'm looking for!

Good to know I can get away with it

Now I need to find myself a Steeplecab model.

[bill937ca]

12 minutes ago, GDorsett said:

Now I need to find myself a Steeplecab model.

Try Kato Pocket Line, but very limited pulling power.

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10113314

 

Or Tomytec railway collection

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10362833

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10077021

 

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by bill937ca

[Densha]

Aru Nine sells some interesting brass kits for small freight locomotives, including a newly announced battery loco.

 

World Kogei also did some steeplecabs, although they are often very expensive models.

[bill937ca]

Another line  with steeple cabs was the Towada Tourist Electric Railway.

 

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/十和田観光電鉄ED300形電気機関車

 

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/十和田観光電鉄ED400形電気機関車

[bill937ca]

More threads:

 

 

[GDorsett]

that battery slug does not look too difficult to kitbash, actually.

[bill937ca]

Mitsu Chemicals plant railway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kvp]

16 hours ago, Densha said:

What about freight transport on the now abolished Tobu Nikko Tramway Line?

The Japanese railways act allowed freight on tramways and also street running. The linked wikipedia article states that most street running remaining in Japan is the result of a tramway getting upgraded to interurban or heavy rail usage and keeping its old shared right of way with a special permit. Tramway here meant classic streetcar operation and high floor light trains, that was often called interurban in US terminology.

 

In other parts of the world it's different. For example, in Hungary, all tramlines had the loading gauge set for the prussian freight interchange standard, which meant all standard gauge tracks could carry standard freight cars (g10 boxcars for example), regardless of being a city street or a mainline. Parts of the old Budapest loop railway had tram track street running on the Buda side from the southern railway terminus to the nothern local interest railway terminus many kilometers away all the way around Castle hill. This standard was kept, but times have moved and the new european international loading gauge is much larger, so modern freight does not fit into the old common standard. The last heavy freight trains (the largest with 16 axle transformer cars) ran on Budapest streets in the late 1990-ies. Only some access spurs remain on traffic separated and upgraded tram tracks. The rare tram line freight movements (mostly MOV) still employ the old M44 road switchers and the remaining hundred years old boxcab electrics. Seeing a high hood diesel running long hood first through a pedestrian mall is a bit strange and kind of dangerous though, so these are kept to a minimum.

 

ps: There was one part of the Japanese law that i seem to remember to have read, the right of a railway operator to buy land for track construction, similarly to state controlled mandatory sale. Afaik this has been used in the past by some real estate development firms to aquire land for development by buying and operating a small, in the red railway line somewhere to officially became a railway company. This system seems to have allowed railway companies to have their own right of way everywhere they went, so there was no real need for on street running. Even in New York, the High line was constructed (mostly on private property by the owners of said plots) to avoid the problems of on street freight running. Road / rail crossings in Japan are very well regulated and as the videos above show, very well protected too. For a mixed tram/interurban/freight theme, i would suggest a semi rural interurban line set in the early to mid Showa period with mixed on street and private right of way running. This even allows mixing electric and diesel and even a bit of steam power.

Edited July 24, 2018 by kvp

[marknewton]

Meitetsu street running:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=srN8YO5MEdQ#

 

All the best,

 

Mark.