Getting started with Kato Unitrack

[Kiran]

Last week was my birthday. The wife walked into the train store in Santa Clara and got me an Amtrak starter set by Kato. This is the P42 superliner 106-0017. She also got me a Kato double track set variation 11. I do like the double track set. I set up the double track set but can only use 1 track because I only have 1 Kato poer pack. I would like to run my shinkansens on this double track set. So I was hoping some of you Unitrack users can help me answer some questions I have.

 

1. I don't suppose I can use the Tomix N600 power pack with Kato unitrack? The feeders look completely different on both ends.

2. Is there a Kato power pack that has 2 controllers in 1 unit?

3. Someone mentioned on another thread that Kato does turnouts with insulating joiners builtin. Can someone please point me to those? I am basically looking for a turnout that will let me switch trains for the outer loop to an inner loop and vice versa.

4. Where can I find the Kato Unitrack to Tomix Finetrack conversion pieces?

5. If I run Shinkansen trains on the Kato track with the Kato power pack, Is it going to be safe at full throttle? Is the power output same on Kato and Tomix controllers?

6. If I want to be a carpet modeller, what sort of Unitrack am better off with?

 

Thanks ever so much for all the help.

 

[katoftw]

1 yes, join feeders together, solder or screw terminal etc

 

2 easier just with two controllers

 

3 you just buy insulaled joiner separately

 

4 any shop that sell kato

 

5 you can run them at full throttle with power issues. But they will likely fall off the track at high speeds and R315 curves

 

6 dont play on carpet. But if you want double track layouts and you wanna play on the floor. Then the double track kato sets are better. You'll never have track spacing issues

[chadbag]

While I do now have a simple KATO power Pack from a 10-006 Glacier Express starter set I recently got, my main DC power pack is an Athearn I got locally.   While I have run at full throttle on it, it is an HO pack and will put out a bit more voltage so I tend to not go much past 60%.   Much more realistic anyway.

 

Any normal DC train power pack should work.  Just be mindful of the upper throttle range.  

Edited July 22, 2018 by chadbag

[toc36]

Kiran,

 

4. Where can I find the Kato Unitrack to Tomix Finetrack conversion pieces?

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/search?search_query_adv=kato+20045

 

Toc

 

 

 

[Kiran]

9 hours ago, katoftw said:

3 you just buy insulaled joiner separately

 

Kiran: I am worried about how difficult it is going to be to attach the insulating joiner. See my thread about Tomix turnouts

5 you can run them at full throttle with power issues. But they will likely fall off the track at high speeds and R315 curves

Kiran: I am planning on 348 and above curves only

6 dont play on carpet. But if you want double track layouts and you wanna play on the floor. Then the double track kato sets are better. You'll never have track spacing issues

 

 

[kvp]

18 minutes ago, Kiran said:

 

Kiran: I am worried about how difficult it is going to be to attach the insulating joiner. See my thread about Tomix turnouts

The Kato double track single and double crossovers have the isolators built in. They are single pieces.

[katoftw]

Insulator just clip out with a special tool you would've got with your starter set.  I was referring to the single track pieces.

 

As kvp has posted, you can also buy doubletrack crossovers and scissor crossovers which have this feature already built into the track piece.

[Kiran]

14 minutes ago, kvp said:

The Kato double track single and double crossovers have the isolators built in. They are single pieces.

Are you talking about these 3 turnouts 20-230, 20-231 and 20-210? https://www.katousa.com/N/Unitrack/concrete.html

[kvp]

1 hour ago, Kiran said:

Are you talking about these 3 turnouts 20-230, 20-231 and 20-210? https://www.katousa.com/N/Unitrack/concrete.html

Yes. They are pretty much plug and play and are designed to electrically isolate two loops. This also means it's better to use them only between two loops and use the regular turnouts for sidings and yards within a loop.

[Kiran]

I notice that spacing between inner and outer loops is different for Kato and Tomix. Appears to be 33mm for Kato and 37 for Tomix. I wonder if 2 Tomix shinkansen trains will be OK on curves running in opposite directions?

 

The spacing difference may also mean I can't combine Tomix and Kato track when making a double track oval. I was going to put a turnout in the straight section of the loop so that my train can switch from inner to outer loop or vice versa? Not a big deal as the track pieces are not all that expensive.

[kvp]

2 hours ago, Kiran said:

I notice that spacing between inner and outer loops is different for Kato and Tomix. Appears to be 33mm for Kato and 37 for Tomix. I wonder if 2 Tomix shinkansen trains will be OK on curves running in opposite directions?

 

The spacing difference may also mean I can't combine Tomix and Kato track when making a double track oval. I was going to put a turnout in the straight section of the loop so that my train can switch from inner to outer loop or vice versa? Not a big deal as the track pieces are not all that expensive.

Kato and Tomix have two completly different track systems.

 

Tomix based it on 7 cm (70 mm, half the length of a Nj scale standard 20 meter car of 140 mm and everything is a multiple or fraction of that, even the curves. The base curve is  280 mm (70*4=140*2=280 or 28 cm). Track to track distance is 37 mm. This wider distance allows smaller curves without fouling the parallel tracks.

 

Kato uses 6.2 cm (62 mm) as their base and their base curve is 282 mm (28.2 cm). Track to track distance is 33 mm.

 

There are adapter tracks for converting between the two systems but their geometry is wildly different and usually needs some clever math to get it right.

[Kiran]

I am back with more questions!

 

I have the variation set v11 https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10058599 and I did try the layout they suggested. But if I wanted make some changes, what do I need to be aware of? I know that I have to have an approach track between the straight and curve tracks.

 

Also, I got myself one of the scissor turnouts https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10003056 but I am not sure if this is electric or manual. There is a feeder cable sticking out of this thing on the side. If it is electric, can I attach it to my Kato power pack or do I need a separate power pack for the turnout?

[katoftw]

Depends on the changes you wanna make. Be more specific and we can help.

 

The scissor crossover cord/cable is to plug into you points switch/direction selector. The thing that attach to the side of the throttles. You can use it manually though using the little black tabs.

[Kiran]

On 8/2/2018 at 8:44 PM, katoftw said:

Depends on the changes you wanna make. Be more specific and we can help.

 

The scissor crossover cord/cable is to plug into you points switch/direction selector. The thing that attach to the side of the throttles. You can use it manually though using the little black tabs.

I am just experimenting to see what I can do. I took the Kato V11 variation double track set and added extra double track pieces to it. Added a road crossing (just for fun) and a scissors turnout. I also put in a Kato double track single crossover (20-230) but am running into issues with this one. The pictures should give you an idea. Blind man taking pictures using a phone and so not sure what exactly is visible.

 

The scissors turnout works just fine. I can have the power in the same direction and have the train switch from inner to outer or the other way round by moving the tabs. The other turnout (20230) doesn't work though. Train stops as soon as the power car switches to the other track. I thought this piece would already have the insulating joiner.

 

I also want to add a siding with a single track. I want to have one of the trains in the siding now and then. I am guessing I can use a single track turnout but I am not sure how to cut off power to that siding track once the train is there in the siding.

[gavino200]

9 hours ago, Kiran said:

I am just experimenting to see what I can do. I took the Kato V11 variation double track set and added extra double track pieces to it. Added a road crossing (just for fun) and a scissors turnout. I also put in a Kato double track single crossover (20-230) but am running into issues with this one. The pictures should give you an idea. Blind man taking pictures using a phone and so not sure what exactly is visible.

 

The scissors turnout works just fine. I can have the power in the same direction and have the train switch from inner to outer or the other way round by moving the tabs. The other turnout (20230) doesn't work though. Train stops as soon as the power car switches to the other track. I thought this piece would already have the insulating joiner.

 

I also want to add a siding with a single track. I want to have one of the trains in the siding now and then. I am guessing I can use a single track turnout but I am not sure how to cut off power to that siding track once the train is there in the siding.

 

 

 

 

 

Regarding the siding - It's been a long time since I've had a DC layout. But I used to just set up a switch/point/junction and some track leading out from it. The side line had power when the junction was open. The power went off when I closed the junction. It should be no problem.. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by gavino200

[kvp]

Your problem is caused by the double crossover. It has isolators in the straight through direction. Just add power feeders to both sides. In your case, it stops the single crossover from getting power on one side but only in the trailing direction on one of the loops and only when set to diverging.

 

For the single crossover, it has selective power routing in it. Just disable that by moving the power routing screws to non routing, while leaving the frog power ones set to powered.

 

In this case the problem is the straight through isolators in the double crossover and the power routing in the single crossover playing against each other. The extra feeders and the screws disable this and allow power to everywhere on both loops.

 

ps: The stub tracks just work. If a track is not selected with a route from the feeder, it won't get any power. Siding (bypass) tracks are trickier but as long as the turnouts are in pairs (one left and one right point to it) they will also just work.

[Kiran]

1 hour ago, kvp said:

Your problem is caused by the double crossover. It has isolators in the straight through direction. Just add power feeders to both sides. In your case, it stops the single crossover from getting power on one side but only in the trailing direction on one of the loops and only when set to diverging.

 

For the single crossover, it has selective power routing in it. Just disable that by moving the power routing screws to non routing, while leaving the frog power ones set to powered.

 

In this case the problem is the straight through isolators in the double crossover and the power routing in the single crossover playing against each other. The extra feeders and the screws disable this and allow power to everywhere on both loops.

 

Thanks KVP. If I understand correctly, I should do one of the 2 things you suggest? In other words, I should either add feeders on both sides of the double cross over or turn the screws in the single crossover. Should I do both instead?

[Kiran]

1 hour ago, kvp said:

 

 

ps: The stub tracks just work. If a track is not selected with a route from the feeder, it won't get any power. Siding (bypass) tracks are trickier but as long as the turnouts are in pairs (one left and one right point to it) they will also just work.

I need to get Kato single Turnouts for the stub/siding. Are #4 turnouts the standard in Kato? What do the numbers mean?

[kvp]

6 hours ago, Kiran said:

Thanks KVP. If I understand correctly, I should do one of the 2 things you suggest? In other words, I should either add feeders on both sides of the double cross over or turn the screws in the single crossover. Should I do both instead?

Either will solve your problem but imho you should do both to get it as reliable as possible.

[kvp]

6 hours ago, Kiran said:

I need to get Kato single Turnouts for the stub/siding. Are #4 turnouts the standard in Kato? What do the numbers mean?

It's an american term and it represents the length of the turnout. #4 is medium and #6 is long. The short (r150) ones are for trams only. The #4 is the good one for yards and compacter stations. The #6 is good for high speed mainlines and island platforms. If you just want one or two sidings (one on each main) possibly with an island platform each, then the #6-s will be easier as they have no screws and are set up for power routing (to automatically cut off power to platform tracks). Many japanese modellers use #4-s only for conventional (cape gauge) lines due to space limitations and leave the #6-s only for shinkansen (standard gauge) stations. Considering your rolling stock is shinkansen and american, i would use #6-s, especially that wider trains (shinkansen and american stock) tend to hit some of the platform ends with #4 turnouts and #4 platform ends. The #6 platform ends are much narrower.

[Kiran]

Thank you very much KVP. #4 turnouts are added to the cart. I am also thinking of buying a couple of basic platform sets. Any thoughts on these?

 

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/kato-n-20806-island-platform-set/

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/kato-n-20815-one-sided-platform-set/

 

Also, is there a track accessory that I can use to make a train automatically slowdown and stop at a platform? I am not ready for complicated electrical work yet.

[kvp]

53 minutes ago, Kiran said:

Thank you very much KVP. #4 turnouts are added to the cart. I am also thinking of buying a couple of basic platform sets. Any thoughts on these?

 

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/kato-n-20806-island-platform-set/

https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/kato-n-20815-one-sided-platform-set/

 

Also, is there a track accessory that I can use to make a train automatically slowdown and stop at a platform? I am not ready for complicated electrical work yet.

Those platform sets are for the #6 turnouts... (please see my post above)

 

Automatic control is mostly for Tomix finetrack. The Kato unitrack system is much simpler, but has almost no automation possibilities without electrical hacking and 3rd party kits.

[Kiran]

2 minutes ago, kvp said:

Those platform sets are for the #6 turnouts... (please see my post above)

 

Automatic control is mostly for Tomix finetrack. The Kato unitrack system is much simpler, but has almost no automation possibilities without electrical hacking and 3rd party kits.

Sorry, I meant to say #6 turnout is in the cart. Long day at work!

[Kiran]

Now that I have platforms and #6 turnouts in the post, I am beginning to think about layout changes. In my layout picture above, there is a straight section with double track. I am thinking of adding a siding or a stub there. I will take out some of the double track 248mm sections and replace them with single track pieces and the turnouts.

 

I would like to keep the double crossover still in the layout. Will the single turnouts work with the double crossover?

[kvp]

28 minutes ago, Kiran said:

I would like to keep the double crossover still in the layout. Will the single turnouts work with the double crossover?

Yes. Just feed both sides of the double crossover. (two feeders on each loop) This would take care of the double crossover and provide power to the station tracks from both directions. (i'm assuming that the station will be located along the wall, where you parked the trains on the photos)