Kato 113 motor car derailing

[Ultratram]

So I have an older kato 10-808 series 113 basic set. That I recently aquired It is derailing on my kato turnouts.

 

I even ran the motor car by itself, with a straight away before entering the turnout and it still jumps the track.

 

From what I can see, when the trailing bogie enters the turn it forces the lead wheels of the trailing bogie up, making the car derail. It does this moving in either direction.

 

And thoughts or suggestions would be helpful. Pretty frustrating at the moment.

[kvp]

It could be a mechanical problem, like dirt in the transmission that prevents the bogie from rotating freely. You could check it manually that if you power the good bogie, you can rotate the other one freely.

 

The other possibility is that you are trying to run a Kato 113 on Kato Unitram points and curves. Afaik only the Tomix 113-s are able to run on R150 curves and points.

[Welshbloke]

Also worth checking that the stub axles are pressed into the gear properly on that bogie. If one has worked itself slightly broader in gauge that could cause a derailment.

 

It could also be a cracked gear. Very rare on Kato but I have had a MoHa 103 with that problem, it now runs happily with three driven axles and the cracked gear removed. Annoyingly it was one of the intermediate ones which can't be obtained separately.

 

I'd try removing each bogie in turn and gently turning the driveshaft while feeling for tight spots. It's easy to pop the intermediate gears out of the bogie in their carrier to check for damaged teeth or something stuck in them, the clips are just inboard of the pickup tips on the top of the bogie. While you're at it you can put a drop of oil on the worm drive bearings and check they're in the right places. Also check for missing/damaged/twisted traction tyres, if one is missing there'll be a visible groove on the wheel where it should be.

[Ultratram]

Ok thanks. I will open it up and have a look.

[nah00]

On 6/23/2018 at 3:32 AM, Welshbloke said:

 

It could also be a cracked gear. Very rare on Kato but I have had a MoHa 103 with that problem, it now runs happily with three driven axles and the cracked gear removed. Annoyingly it was one of the intermediate ones which can't be obtained separately.

 

This. I couldn't figure out why my Shikisai would derail going into a switch and on some curves. Thought it might something trapped in the bogie, took it apart and one had a tooth missing. Runs fine on 3 wheels. 

[Ultratram]

Bummer..... I have worked extensively on my moha 112. I was able to clean it, and oiled the gears and got it to not derail over my turnouts. 

 

But once in the 4 car consist it started to derail again. There is just something about these bogie mounted couplers that make them touchy. A little too much leverage into the turn and the motor car gets thrown. 

 

I am dead in the water with this set for now.

[kvp]

Could you tell us what kind of turnout and curve are you using for the tests? Also a picture of the underside of the motor car could help...

 

[HantuBlauLOL]

move the rubber equipped wheel to the outer side.

[Ultratram]

Here is what I am working with. Kato track. Think these are #4s. It's a temporary layout so nothing is nailed down. I have made the rails as straight as possible at the joiners so don't think there as any problem there.

[cteno4]

Have you swapped out the point with another one?

 

have you thought of trying to “tune” the #4 point by making a small notch in the rail for the point blade to nest into? #4 points are notorious for having crankiness with smoe trains in some situations. Also have you checked the gauges carefully on all the wheelsets?

 

it really does sound like one of the bogies is just not swinging smoothly and picking the point blade. If one of the wheel sets on this bogie is a bit wide on gauge or out of alignment it would push the flange more into he blade tip.

 

jeff

[nah00]

Do you have any of the #6 turnouts on your layout? Does it derail on them? Another thing to check would be the bogies themselves, make sure that there isn't anything on top of them preventing free movement. Also check all four wheels for burrs/deformation and make sure that they are in gauge all around.

[Welshbloke]

My experience with Kato #4s is that the tip of the point rail is the problem. It's square rather than tapered, so an errant flange will hit it square on and either climb it or push between it and the stock rail. Filing a slight ramp into the tip means that it hits further down the wheel flange (which is also tapered) and tends to steer the wheelset to the correct side of it. Mine still aren't infallible but they don't cause my Japanese stock any problems now.