Miscellaneous NEM651 Conversion musings

[chadbag]

So, tonight I needed a little stress release (compared to work and having been sick this week).  I decided to test out a different decoder in my Fleischmann BR101 that had some light issues under DCC and test it more in general.  And I also had a whole stack of NEM651 compatible locomotives and a stack of DH05C-1 and DH10C-1 decoders, so I decided to convert them all.

 

There were 5 Fleischmann (BR 120, 3x E10, 1x E41), 1 Arnold (DR 252), and a couple HobbyTrain (both BR110).

 

I tested the BR101 with 3 different decoders, 2 different D&H (1 DH05C and 1 DH10C) and an ESU LokPilot 4.0 mikro.  I also tested it under DC again.  The problem remained -- under DCC, only the rear light goes on, and it does not no matter what -- as soon as you place the train on the track -- and DCC commands do not affect the light at all.  The motor works fine under DCC.   So I contacted Fleischmann on their website tonight.  We'll see what they say.  The BR101 was purchased from MB-Lippe in Germany.  I'll see what Fleischmann says first before I contact them.

 

I got the 5 other Fleischmann converted with mostly DH10C but the E41 had a side mounted socket so I used a DH05C like on the BR101 with the decoder folded over on top.   All work fine.

 

I did one of the HobbyTrain with a DH10C and it worked fine.  I did the other with a DH05C and it kept shorting out the DCC system, causing my NCE PowerCab to reboot itself.  It also made some sort of "electronic noise" that is hard to describe.   If the address was not set at first to the one of the decoder it would not happen, IIRC, but as soon as you switched it, this would happen. Not good.  So I got my Arnold DR252 and installed the same DH05C decoder in that.  Worked fine.   So it is not the decoder as it runs the Arnold fine -- motor, lights, etc.  (The Arnold is a PITA to take apart though -- worst I have seen for a modern Locomotive -- you have to take all 4 buffers out to get the body off and all sorts of small pieces fall off the bottom that you have to find and put back on -- one piece fell off when I took it apart the first time a month ago and I never found it).

 

I then put the DC plug back into the HobbyTrain and it runs ok.  So I took a DH10C-1 and tried it in the HobbyTrain.  This time, when I switched the address to the default 3, it made the same noise but instead of causing the NCE to reboot, it let some magic smoke out of the decoder.  I immediately took it off the track and decided that that was enough for tonight.  I sent in a contact form request to Lemke/HobbyTrain and explained what happened (in my best German) and we'll see how they deal with it.  There is obviously some sort of short in the system board on the HobbyTrain.  It is defective.   Hopefully they make it easy to get fixed or replaced and offer to replace the decoder as well.  We'll see.  This one was purchased from a US dealer back east (that are not very big conversationalists -- they usually ignore my emails when I inquire about stuff -- worse than pulling teeth).

 

The other day I converted a Fleischmann BR182 and a HobbyTrain BR182 (MCRE Taurus) with NEM651 without issue (And a Trix (Minitrix) ÖBB 1016 Taurus with that weird 14 pin thing they use).

 

When they work, the NEM651 and the other sockets are a great thing.  When they doesn't, life sucks and it gets expensive.  I blew a couple KATO cab-car decoders as well with some sort of short before I gave up and ordered some new parts (copper rails and spring thingies) back in January.

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by chadbag

[chadbag]

To cut to the chase, I was able to repair both locomotives, and even the decoder that had smoke come out of it still works.  Here is how it went down, and pics of the repairs.

 

I emailed both Fleischmann and Lemke (HobbyTrain).  I explained the respective problems.

 

Fleischmann's response was that I needed to return it to my dealer.   I explained that I had gotten it through Modellbahn-Lippe in Germany and I was in the US and it was not a great idea to be sending stuf back and forth across the Atlantic.   The next day I got an email back, and the guy agreed, and he sent several shots of a BR101 locomotive without the shell so I could see the wiring and make sure it matched mine.   Sure enough, two wires were not hooked up right (out of the box).  The yellow went where the red was supposed to attached to the current rail and the red went to where the yellow was attached to the current rail.  I took my handy soldering station, fired it up, switched the two wires, and now the lights work under DCC as well.   Just as they should.

 

The HobbyTrain came right out and said that sometimes the power tabs from the motor get bent down, form the factory, and cause a short.  I was not sure how to take it apart (I could figure it out but wanted to get his instructions in case it did not fix it they couldn't claim I had violated any warranty).  However, that evening I took a good look at it and saw how it came apart and so I took the PCB board off and saw the tabs.   The guy recommended bending them up and then putting some isolation tape underneath.   So that is what I did, and presto.   It works, lights included, under DCC just fine.  I wanted to try the decoder that had smoke come out of it when it shorted on my original attempt, and luckily, it works fine, both directions, with and without lights.  So whatever smoked, was not important :)   .   I don't know if it killed the decoder longevity or anything but so far so good.

 

Here are some pics of both.   First the BR101 with the bad wiring and then the good wiring.  ( @gavino200 you may want to check yours ).  The bad wiring is first and is with the Yellow attached on the left side rail next to the decoder interface.   The good wiring, matching the picture that Fleischmann help desk sent me, shows the yellow wire on the right, and teh red on the left.  All works now.  (As an aside, that cut out in the metal chassis between the front and the rails, where you see the yellow wire lay, is where I will put a D&H Sound Decoder board and al little sugar cube or flat speaker of some sort to try out some sound with this.

 

 

Here is the HobbyTrain BR110.  First image shows the locomotive chassis with the lights and board removed.   The second image shows the motor tabs that had shorted out against the chassis.  This is after I had bent them up.   The third image shows I put some captan tape underneath them in case the board, which gos on tope, where to push them down enough to short them out again.  (All future HobbyTrain locomotives will be disassembled, tabs bent up, and captan tape put down before I try to add a decoder).   The last image shows everything back together with lights on under DCC.

 

 

[gavino200]

14 hours ago, chadbag said:

 

 

Here are some pics of both.   First the BR101 with the bad wiring and then the good wiring.  ( @gavino200 you may want to check yours ).  The bad wiring is first and is with the Yellow attached on the left side rail next to the decoder interface.   The good wiring, matching the picture that Fleischmann help desk sent me, shows the yellow wire on the right, and teh red on the left.  All works now.  (As an aside, that cut out in the metal chassis between the front and the rails, where you see the yellow wire lay, is where I will put a D&H Sound Decoder board and al little sugar cube or flat speaker of some sort to try out some sound with this.

 

 

 

 

 

How interesting. The Fleischmann loco was wired wrong from the factory. I'll check mine and see if it's the same. My decoder hasn't arrived yet, so it's still on the shelf.

[chadbag]

Yeah, the wiring was wrong from the factory.  Their help desk sent photos of the wiring and asked me to compare, which is where I discovered the problem.   Hopefully it was a one-off problem.

[gavino200]

Mine isn't like that. But honestly, the soldering job on yours doesn't look factory. It's way to blobby. I just checked mine. It doesn't look like that at all. Very fine, subtle soldering work. 

 

[chadbag]

Good that your red and yellow are correct.  Though it looks just as blobby on the yellow and red as mine did...

[gavino200]

8 hours ago, chadbag said:

Good that your red and yellow are correct.  Though it looks just as blobby on the yellow and red as mine did...

 

Lol. No really. It's less blobby. Maybe I'll post a close up. 

 

Mah loco is NOT blobby! Dammit!

Edited May 11, 2018 by gavino200

[gavino200]

More? Less? Same? Who knows? Ok, I have to admit, my red is a tad blobby.

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by gavino200

[chadbag]

Does not look all that different from my before pic.    

 

I won't claim my replacement job is much better.  Had poor light and couldn't find my needle nose so was holding the wire with a heat-absorber clamp.

[gavino200]

Ah, I wasn't criticizing the work as such. There's not a single solder on this page that look like a bad joint. Some of those Fleischmann solders just look like the work of an amateur (like myself). The ladies in the factories usually IMO so some very slick looking work with a minimum of extra solder. 

 

I was wondering if maybe a retailer had an oopsey along the way and made an error repairing it. But apparently Fleischmann just does some blobby soldering work.

 

BTW my D&H decoders arrived yesterday, so hopefully I'll convert my snow plow loco this weekend. No instructions came with it. Just a decoder in a cellophane bag. So I'll have to research the funny LED wiring. Something like, white and yellow to each LED and then the circuit completed by connecting the other LED terminal to one of the pick ups. I've never had any other decoder that worked that way. It shouldn't be a big deal though.

Edited May 11, 2018 by gavino200