Loco Camera

[inobu]

Not sure which one is more impressive the camera interface or the snow on the ground.

 

 

 

Inobu

[cteno4]

Nice, cute cab control/view! Ho and dcc are so nice for stuff like this.

 

nice snow, that always somhard to do well and do it so it does not come up and get gunked up... when I was a kit a guy in town had a large marklin layout and about half was wonderfully done in snow, but continually getting into everything and he use to curse it constantly, but to holdmthe snow in place so noting came up he said would destroy the beauty of it how he had done it. Looked georgous, but I walked away wirh I don’t want to do snow, didn’t grow up in the stuff and could just let it go...

 

jeff

[inobu]

Its something different. it looks good in the video but I guess the dust build up will take its toll over time.

 

Inobu

[cteno4]

ohh had not though of the dust build up and how that may look on the snow, let alone trying to clean it!

 

jeff

[kvp]

This type of model snow (actually decoration snow) is plastic based and once dry, hard as rock. Also washable and easy to clean. Dust is a problem, no matter if it's grass or snow.

[chadbag]

It would be interesting to try and put that together yourself on N-scale.   Need a really small camera and room to install it.    Looking at some of the Keychain type cameras (or on some of the small drones) I wonder if you could put the camera in the locomotive and the rest of the electronics in a companion car like some do for sound. 

 

Camera electronics will only get smaller.  

[cteno4]

there are a few out there for this made for n scale, few threads here. its a tight fit to be totally inside n scale trains. tomix has a very nice one that uses the rails to transmit the video so it tends to be a little better quality and less drop outs.

 

good thread from nxcale

 

 

lots of small spy cameras can fit for recording to sim or do vhf or wifi. vhf usually gets some drop outs here and there. wifi tends to be a bit lower quality as they usually stream either high res low frame rate or small res higher frame rate.

 

best alternative seems to be coming with smaller camera systems at higher resolutions and frame rates for drones and rcs. some of these are getting smaller to the size to use in n scale cars.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[kvp]

Actually there are 3 japanese camera trains. The old Tomix system that used analog video through the rails, the Kato system that used analog video through the air and the newest Tomix system that uses digital video through wifi. You can use your smartphone or tablet to see the cab view and even combine it with a Tomix imitation driving stand controller to drive your train. These are the ready to run systems.

[cteno4]

I forgot the newest tomix went WiFi.

 

there was a Japanese endoscope company, RF Systems (confusing as the direct raidio units are loosely called rf systems...), that made a really nice little rf unit that was about 1cm cube and then a small battery and recharge circuit that was wired to it. Its just over $100 and looks to be still in stock at amazon.jp (it was oop for a while there). 

 

https://www.amazon.co.jp/TC-9-鉄道模型用小型カメラ-「トレインスコープ-TC-9」レシーバーセット/dp/B005LNEZAW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1520526467&sr=8-2&keywords=Train+camera

 

you get like 20 minutes off the battery and it is recharged from track power so when the train stopped or slowed on dc the camera kept going and no changing batteries or recharging them with a plug (couple of the earliest rf train cam units did this). The camera cube fit into cars just right. I really like it, we’ve used it on the club layout for years and a big hit with the everyone. It is an attractive nuscance for kids, and the worst adults, to try to put fingers in front of the train or even their faces to show up on screen! But fun for then to figure out which train it’s in. You need a train with a lower windshield as high windshields like on Shinkansen the camera lens just can’t see out of.

 

ive tried a bout 5 cheap small rf and WiFi cameras in the last few years and none as nice as the rf systems one. I’m hoping the drone market will make smaller and cheaper 5.8ghz rf units that will fit in n scale cars. The dimensions for a lot of the drones does not have fo be ultra tiny or long and skinny like we need them though. But most systems have camera, transmitter and battery all separate units which helps. But so much drone craze helps make a market for the stuff and drone folks need the high frame rate or it makes you sick to try to use them going fast!

 

frame rate is important and why I’ve not liked the WiFi models as the cheaper ones don’t get good bandwidth and also have a lag.

 

the big big issue though is the lens. On train cams we want something that can go like an inch to 3 feet, most systems are made to go either up to 3” (like an endoscope for close in inspection) or 3’ on out for like a drone as they don’t care about up close. Most of these systems are fixed lenses and you cant change the depth of field on them.

 

Many of the early and cheap small cams use pinhole lenses that would give you full depth of field but are not nice optics usually for a clear view and limited light so sensor was ramped up more and that brings in noise.

 

some of the sport cams are not getting small enough to use on a flatcar and give you both WiFi and sd card recording so you can get both but not small enough to fit inside a car yet.

 

cheers

 

jeff

 

 

[Kiha66]

10 hours ago, cteno4 said:

https://www.amazon.co.jp/TC-9-鉄道模型用小型カメラ-「トレインスコープ-TC-9」レシーバーセット/dp/B005LNEZAW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1520526467&sr=8-2&keywords=Train+camera

 

That looks really neat Jeff, would you recommend it?  What was the maximum range?  I don't have a huge need for it myself but I know the Belmont shore club in LA was thinking of implementing something similar for open houses but was having trouble finding a camera to use for it.   This one looks small enough you could make a model of SP's camera car to cover it then just attach a pusher unit to push it around the layout.  Would it work on DCC?

[cteno4]

Both myself and another clubmember have the unit and I’ve liked it a lot.

 

the old layout was about 16’ long and we would have the receiver on a table about 5-6’ away so I’m guessing 20’ for sure. If you can mount the receiver in the middle of the layout and then run the video out to your  screen. We were lazy and just put the receiver at the screen.

 

you will get dropouts and static with 2.4ghz moving video like this. Also will depend on the building and how it takes rf as well.

 

How big is the layout space?

 

the lens center is pretty near the center vertical and horizontal so that is a challenge for high window cars or to be on the off center lense on that camera loco.

 

jeff

Edited March 9, 2018 by cteno4

[Kiha66]

It didnt have to fit the prototype exactly, but it would be neat to have an "inspired by prototype" camera car to go around the layout.  The layout is about 20 by 90 feet, so even in the center it might be a bit beyond receiver range unfortunately. 

[cteno4]

Yeah for that size I think you are looking at using a rc unit that’s much longer range and maybe 5.8ghz.

 

jeff

[chadbag]

Digikeijs in Holland has a system on their website...

 

https://www.digikeijs.com/locvision-2-0-inbouwset.html

 

 

[kvp]

Is there a wifi based standalone system, similar to the Tomix one but not integrated into a japanese prototype cab car?

[cteno4]

I’ve not seen a stand-alone WiFi being marketed for trains. 

 

This is i I think pretty much the same one I tried last year, but was not great. Low frame rate and depth of field started at like 6” out

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-WIFI-HD-Spy-Hidden-Camera-Wireless-DIY-Module-DV-DVR-Nanny-Cam-Micro-Black/232681470155?hash=item362ce578cb:m:mveuH2W2V4Lg0c4fIB4sn3Q

 

jeff

Edited March 11, 2018 by cteno4

[cteno4]

Btw, I’ve ordered one of these the other night to play wirh

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KINGKONG-Q25-MINI-VTX-CAMERA-25mw-16ch-Transmitter-800tvl-coms-Camera-for-90GT/282405214765?hash=item41c0a99a2d:g:l8IAAOSwv-ZaKnEE

 

at 12mm it might fit inside some trains. Also looks like the lens can screw down so hopefully maybe pull the focus in some. 5.8 also help with dropouts. Worth fiddling with.

 

jeff

[kvp]

21 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Btw, I’ve ordered one of these the other night to play wirh

Thanks, but this seems to be analog. Wifi access means high bandwidth and multiple possible resolutions. The dropouts could be solved if conventional https webcam access would be replaced with a redundant voip stream using an mp4 codec. Essentially what most video chats use. The processing overhead of the udp stream would also be smaller if the camera ic has a built in mp4 encoder. Some chinese wifi/gsm drones could already do this, but the boards (and the chips) are too large for N scale trains.

[cteno4]

That is all true, but so far all the small, off the shelf, inexpensive WiFi options are not great.

 

the 2.4ghz do ok but limited range and some dropouts, but even those do better than the off the shelf cheap WiFi I’ve seen. Tomix appears much nicer but I’ve not seen it in person.

 

for just showing a cab view it doesn’t really need to be uber hd, good old ntsc with the old 2.4 was very fun for folks. Yes it would be nice to have it cleaner and higher res, but getting something affordable and small enough that you don’t have th be a ce and ee to make work may be a while with WiFi.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

On 3/11/2018 at 2:03 PM, cteno4 said:

Btw, I’ve ordered one of these the other night to play wirh

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KINGKONG-Q25-MINI-VTX-CAMERA-25mw-16ch-Transmitter-800tvl-coms-Camera-for-90GT/282405214765?hash=item41c0a99a2d:g:l8IAAOSwv-ZaKnEE

 

at 12mm it might fit inside some trains. Also looks like the lens can screw down so hopefully maybe pull the focus in some. 5.8 also help with dropouts. Worth fiddling with.

 

jeff

 

Any update on this?

[gavino200]

On 3/11/2018 at 4:37 AM, chadbag said:

Digikeijs in Holland has a system on their website...

 

https://www.digikeijs.com/locvision-2-0-inbouwset.html

 

 

 

Linky no worky. Did you buy it and try it?

[gavino200]

On 3/8/2018 at 10:40 AM, cteno4 said:

I forgot the newest tomix went WiFi.

 

there was a Japanese endoscope company, RF Systems (confusing as the direct raidio units are loosely called rf systems...), that made a really nice little rf unit that was about 1cm cube and then a small battery and recharge circuit that was wired to it. Its just over $100 and looks to be still in stock at amazon.jp (it was oop for a while there). 

 

https://www.amazon.co.jp/TC-9-鉄道模型用小型カメラ-「トレインスコープ-TC-9」レシーバーセット/dp/B005LNEZAW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1520526467&sr=8-2&keywords=Train+camera

 

 

 

 

 

This link is dead. Is this the product?  https://www.amazon.co.jp/任天堂-RFスイッチ-・SFC用/dp/B0001RBIRQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531699634&sr=8-2&keywords=rf+systems

[cteno4]

Sorry not the one. 

 

looks like all the places that had the rf system tc-9 by itself are dead, including at rc system labs.

 

the tc-9 is the one another member and I have rigged to dc. Works pretty well for about 20 feet but it’s 1.2ghz so not super clear ad gets some interference when there is stuff in the way. That’s why I just got a cheap 5.6ghz unit to try, but the. Need to make voltage regulator and charging circuit for it.

 

its this one

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Railway-modelling-Small-Camera-Train-Scope-Set-TC-9-Morse-typeS-Japan-Tracking/163148439092?hash=item25fc679e34%3Ag%3AGdcAAOSwDVtaXDcd&_sacat=0&_nkw=tc-9+camera&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313&LH_TitleDesc=0

 

Or dcced 

 

http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=1793

 

jeff

[gavino200]

9 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Sorry not the one. 

 

looks like all the places that had the rf system tc-9 by itself are dead, including at rc system labs.

 

the tc-9 is the one another member and I have rigged to dc. Works pretty well for about 20 feet but it’s 1.2ghz so not super clear ad gets some interference when there is stuff in the way. That’s why I just got a cheap 5.6ghz unit to try, but the. Need to make voltage regulator and charging circuit for it.

 

its this one

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Railway-modelling-Small-Camera-Train-Scope-Set-TC-9-Morse-typeS-Japan-Tracking/163148439092?hash=item25fc679e34%3Ag%3AGdcAAOSwDVtaXDcd&_sacat=0&_nkw=tc-9+camera&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313&LH_TitleDesc=0

 

Or dcced 

 

http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=1793

 

jeff

 

It's awesome. But it costs almost as much as the Tomix camera. And Tomix also gives you three cars of a cool train. 

 

But good to know that it's DCC compatible. Do you know off hand, if the Tomix camera car is also DCC compatible?

Edited July 16, 2018 by gavino200

[cteno4]

Yep the tomix is cheaper now use to be more expensive. Tomix needs the cl circuit as well.

 

use to be a street price around $100 or less.

 

i think mine was like $90 shipped from japan.

 

always

 

jeff