Derailment in maiden run of new Amtrak line kills 3

[cteno4]

Very sad. At least two were ironically, sadly, big train enthusiasts. Appears to have been going 80mph in a 30mph.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/us/amtrak-derailment-washington.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/us/amtrak-derailment-victims-washington.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/18/us/amtrak-derailments.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

 

jeff

[katoftw]

Thanks for the links. No news stories until now have mentioned this being a maiden run.

[bill937ca]

More photos.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/photos/multiple-deaths-after-amtrak-train-derails-near-seattle-1.4454480

 

Story

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/amtrak-train-ntsb-update-1.4455726

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/amtrak-crash-route-opponents-1.4455616

[HantuBlauLOL]

128 in a 45 zone?

 

that's pretty brutal.

[Socimi]

On 20/12/2017 at 1:58 AM, cteno4 said:

 Appears to have been going 80mph in a 30mph.

 

Being a new line, shouldn't it be equiped with PTC (Positive Train Control - the american ATS)? 

[Kiha66]

12 minutes ago, Socimi said:

Being a new line, shouldn't it be equiped with PTC (Positive Train Control - the american ATS)? 

 

The line is an old freight line to access a military base and some industry that had been bought and upgraded.  PTC was still being installed in most of the line, and was also in the process of being added in the trains.  It was scheduled to activated in the coming spring according to an article I read. 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Kiha66

[kvp]

24 minutes ago, Socimi said:

 

Being a new line, shouldn't it be equiped with PTC (Positive Train Control - the american ATS)? 

Only around the end of 2018, along with the rolling stock. Amtrak got a time extension from the original 2015 deadline.

[bill937ca]

For PTC there apparently is an issue with getting radio frequencies in urban areas.

[kvp]

1 hour ago, bill937ca said:

For PTC there apparently is an issue with getting radio frequencies in urban areas.

For balise based PTC (used by amtrak on the northeast corridor), you don't need any. It's based on an NFC system, so the transmitters have only a few inches of active radius, well within the rails. (otherwise crosstalk could occur between tracks) For fixed speed limiters, you only need a few passive balises before and after the curves to set the fixed top speed of each section. The thing also costs very little if you don't do any resignalling, just add passive balises for speed control and stop balises (2 or 3 aspect ones) before signals.

[westfalen]

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned anywhere is whether the engineer was alone in the cab. An high speed route with such drastic changes in speed limits should either have some form of PTC or a second route qualified crew member in the cab, especially a new route and a new loco type with which the engineer may not have had much experience.

 

Of course being an inaugural run it could go to the other extreme too, on the recent first revenue run of our New Generation Rollingstock here in Brisbane watching all the supervisors, managers and assorted hangers on get out of the cab was like watching all the clowns get out of the little car at the circus.

 

 

[bill937ca]

It was reported the engineer was not alone in the cab and may have been distracted.

[westfalen]

I believe I read in one of the reports that the train was behind schedule, could he have also been under pressure either direct or imagined to regain lost time? We have sadly seen an extreme example from Japan of how that can end up.

 

Will see what the NTSB comes up with.

[Kiha66]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/us/amtrak-derailment-washington.html

"There was a second person in the cab at the time of the crash, “a conductor who was getting experience and familiarizing himself with the territory,” Ms. Dinh-Zarr said. While that is common practice, rail safety experts say it can also be a distraction to the engineer, a possibility that she said would be investigated."

Sounds like the cameras are already on their way to be looked at, so the state of the cab just before the crash should be known soon.

[Pashina12]

12 minutes ago, bill937ca said:

It was reported the engineer was not alone in the cab and may have been distracted.

 

Well here's hoping it's not a situation like that Aeroflot flight that crashed some years back, when the pilot was drunk off his face and let his 15 year old kid sit at the controls...

Or a situation like (as some people maintain) what was on the BC Ferries' ship that sank (i.e. don't sex and drive...)

[marknewton]

6 hours ago, westfalen said:

Of course being an inaugural run it could go to the other extreme too, on the recent first revenue run of our New Generation Rollingstock here in Brisbane watching all the supervisors, managers and assorted hangers on get out of the cab was like watching all the clowns get out of the little car at the circus.

 

We've seen the same thing happen here when new trains were first in service. People who wouldn't normally be seen dead anywhere traincrew or a working train are all over the place like a rash.

 

Mark.

[medusa]

Wasn't it the same in the SNCF TGV crash last year? Lots of people in the driver's cabin, to high speed in a curve and hell broke loose...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckwersheim_derailment