What could have been...

[Pashina12]

I just read that before deciding on N scale, Sekisui Kinzoku - aka KATO - prepared a C51 in TT scale. I imagine that this would have been running on 9 mm track - which in 1:120 is very close to scale for cape gauge. I wonder why they decided to go with the (random seeming) 1:150 on 9 mm gauge...

[kvp]

15 minutes ago, Pashina12 said:

I just read that before deciding on N scale, Sekisui Kinzoku - aka KATO - prepared a C51 in TT scale. I imagine that this would have been running on 9 mm track - which in 1:120 is very close to scale for cape gauge. I wonder why they decided to go with the (random seeming) 1:150 on 9 mm gauge...

Space mostly. In N scale, you can fit a nice layout on a single tatami or a big one on two. The 1:150 comes from the british N scale, where 1:148 was used instead of 1:160 so the early N gauge motors would fit the narrow bodies of british rolling stock. Japanese cape gauge has a similar loading gauge. The original Arnold N scale was also around 1:150. When it comes for shinkansen that has a very similar loading gauge as the european international standard, manufacturers used 1:160, so a narrow body cape gauge emu at 1:150 has the same width as a wide body standard gauge shinkansen at 1:160. This way they can share tracks and platforms. Many N scale japanese trains are actually standard gauge at 1:150. The 3rd thing is that many trams and some emus ran on 1372 mm gauge, where 1:150 on 9mm track is spot on. (many older tomytec tram models are actually of 1372 mm prototypes) This was a good compromise to cover all three common gauges sharing the same loading gauge. Shinkansen with their wide body cars at 1:160 arrived as an aftertought to fit them in.

 

Also 0, 00, 000 (0, H0, N) is roughly half the size of the next bigger scale, 1/4th the surface and 1/16th the volume. TT is not small enough compared to H0 so the difference really stands out and the smaller footprint allows more people to have trains. This was especially true in Japan.

[Pashina12]

1 minute ago, kvp said:

TT is not small enough compared to H0 so the difference really stands out and the smaller footprint allows more people to have trains.

 

I'm kinda surprised to hear this? I've found that over the last five years that there's been TT on display at our two annual local shows, most people's reactions are exactly the opposite...

 

well one day when I've got two large to fritter away I might get myself one of those Tenshodo TT9 C51s...

[kvp]

My personal experience that non modeller people have a hard time telling N and TT or TT and H0 apart, but they could easily see the size difference between H0 and N also between H0 and 0. The most popular scales in Japan are 0, H0j and Nj, pretty much matching the british 0, 00, 000 scales.

 

Also if you have 20 meter cars as a standard and want a one tatami double track layout, then what would be the best scale with 3 to 4 car trains? (c280/317 or r282/315 fits an average tatami nicely)

[bill937ca]

Auhagen offers HO/TT items as background structures for HO or TT  layouts. The size difference just fades into the background.

 

Category "For H0 and TT":  These items are suitable for both the nominal sizes H0 and TT. Even in reality, there are, for example, large and small houses, which often even stand side by side. Crucial for the size were, among other things, the purse of the builder or the year of construction.

 

https://www.auhagen-shop.de/

Edited December 20, 2017 by bill937ca

[Densha]

3 hours ago, kvp said:

The most popular scales in Japan are 0, H0j and Nj, pretty much matching the british 0, 00, 000 scales.

Err... all 'popular scales' you mention are very niche. H0j and Nj gauges refer to 1:80 and 1:150 scales on respectively 12mm and 6.5mm gauge track to imitate 1067mm cape gauge track. The most popular model railway gauge in Japan is definitely N 1:150 9mm, followed by (probably shared second place) Z 1:220 6.5mm and H0 1:80 16.5mm. All other scales are very rare in Japan.

[kvp]

I wrote scale, where H0j refer to 1:80 on H0 to N gauge track (usually H0) and Nj, which is 1:150 on  N to Z gauge track. The Tomytec Nekoya line trains are H0j scale on N gauge track, representing narrow gauge trains in 1:80.

[railsquid]

On 12/20/2017 at 4:55 AM, Pashina12 said:

I just read that before deciding on N scale, Sekisui Kinzoku - aka KATO - prepared a C51 in TT scale. I imagine that this would have been running on 9 mm track - which in 1:120 is very close to scale for cape gauge. I wonder why they decided to go with the (random seeming) 1:150 on 9 mm gauge...

 

Out of interest, where did you read this? Was it actually TT scale, or possibly a reference to the early N gauge designs, particularly steam locos, being somewhat overscale?

 

Personally I think TT is a nice compromise between N and HO/OO, but the other scales are way too established (at least in Japan and the UK) for it to become viable.

 

[bill937ca]

TT now is mainly an East German gauge.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TT_scale

[Pashina12]

44 minutes ago, railsquid said:

 

Out of interest, where did you read this? Was it actually TT scale, or possibly a reference to the early N gauge designs, particularly steam locos, being somewhat overscale?

 

Personally I think TT is a nice compromise between N and HO/OO, but the other scales are way too established (at least in Japan and the UK) for it to become viable.

 

 

I read it here: TTゲージ in the section 日本のTTゲージ: "日本においては、1950年代から1960年代にかけてアメリカ向け輸出品としてTTゲージを製造するメーカーが存在したが、日本型の製品は現れなかった。関水金属（KATO）は鉄道模型車両参入にあたりTTゲージのC50を試作したが検討の結果Nゲージを採用することになった"

 

I agree, TT is a great compromise between N and HO/OO. But, unfortunately, there's very little available. If you want to model East Germany or Czechoslovakia there's a lot available, and a fair bit of post-Wende German, and some Polish and West German stuff, but anything else, there's a lot less around. Over the past decade, though, there's been a fair bit of progress happening with North American prototype TT, and I figure in another 5-6 years it'll be a solid, if niche, scale, like S scale is.

[marknewton]

http://www.imon.co.jp/webshop/index.php?main_page=addon&module=mt_pages&page=scalegauge_table

 

Mark.

[Nick_Burman]

On 12/21/2017 at 3:25 AM, Pashina12 said:

If you want to model East Germany or Czechoslovakia there's a lot available, and a fair bit of post-Wende German, and some Polish and West German stuff, but anything else, there's a lot less around.

Russian and Soviet also. One of the largest TT suppliers is Peresvet from Russia and they have a fair amount of URSS and former URSS equipment...

 

Cheers NB