Gavino200's Layout phase II - Modeling

[gavino200]

These "pipes" are just unpainted and undetailed metal tubing. They would need to be sprayed, and also, I'm going to experiment with using tiny rings of shrink wrap to simulate pipe joints. The experiment here was to try to find a way to fix the "pipes and wires" to the tunnel wall. The brackets are meant for making telephone poles, but work decently well as a cable rack. They're soft metal, so they comply to the shape of the tunnel. 

 

It took me a long time to find a way to fix these things to the tunnel. I tried glue but that was a mess. I ended up using a needle and thread, tied over a button on the back of the tunnel. This works well and will be the final method. My final tunnel will be fiberglass so I'll have to find the smallest drill bit or borrow some 0.028 inch K-wires to make a path for the needle.

 

I also made a little "walkway". It's too small. I'll need to scale it up. Also it needs some yellow pathway sidelines to make it stand out a little. 

 

[Kiha66]

Nice work!  The unpainted metal already looks a lot like galvanized mounts and pipes.

[gavino200]

1 minute ago, Kiha66 said:

Nice work!  The unpainted metal already looks a lot like galvanized mounts and pipes.

 

Thanks. Interesting idea. Maybe I'll leave them bare metal. If the shrink wrap "pipe joint" idea works, maybe I could paint the joints silver.

[toc36]

"I ended up using a needle and thread, tied over a button on the back of the tunnel."

 

Who would have thought .................

 

Excellent solution!!!

[Khaul]

21 hours ago, gavino200 said:

First experiment with homemade light guides, and a tiny bit of "detailing" - a catenary. This isn't the practice tunnel pictured above. This is an earlier effort that I kept to use as a "pre-practice" piece. This isn't how I'm planning to paint the final tunnel. It's just grey latex paint, to flesh it out a bit. The purpose here was only to test the light tube idea, and decide on a length and thickness. This thickness is the winner. It seems about right and can be easily sourced. It's plastic from one of those little Kato decoder boxes, sawed, filed and sand papered. 

 

It's powered by a single led from behind. The LED is turned almost fully down, as the brightness doesn't scale well on my phone camera. But when turned up it creates a nice illumination effect. 

 

 

Oh, I like this LED. Where did you find it?

[gavino200]

1 minute ago, Khaul said:

 

Oh, I like this LED. Where did you find it?

 

That's a homemade light guide. The same idea as the front lights in a model train. This is just a piece of clear plastic sticking out into the tunnel. There's an LED behind it,  just like in a loco. 

[inobu]

3 hours ago, gavino200 said:

 

That's a homemade light guide. The same idea as the front lights in a model train. This is just a piece of clear plastic sticking out into the tunnel. There's an LED behind it,  just like in a loco. 

That's good.

 

Inobu

[Khaul]

14 hours ago, inobu said:

That's good.

 

Inobu

 

That's very good.

[gavino200]

First successful casting. It took me a few attempts to find a technique that worked. 

 

[Pauljag900]

2 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

First successful casting. It took me a few attempts to find a technique that worked. 

 

Looks like a nice finish there Gavin,things like this normally take a few attempts to get right,looks good budfy👍👍😀

 

[cteno4]

Cool Gavin! Figured it was going to take some fiddling to get what you wanted, but it seemed like it should work! Great work and perseverance.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[gavino200]

Here's all five segments roughly in place. I need to move my track about a centimeter in two directions before I go any further on the board. It's too close to the edge on the front and the side.

 

I'm also going to make a few more segments to start experimenting with detailing techniques. The casts had to be thin in order to be easily removable without damaging the foam shape. They're strong, but they're not rigid enough. I'm planning on using a thin skim-coat on the inside. Any motion will cause that to crumble. So I need to find a coating to apply to the outside of the casts to add rigidity.

 

I'm also going to add a short straight segment on the far side. But I'm going to use inobu's method for that. 

 

[Pauljag900]

12 hours ago, gavino200 said:

Here's all five segments roughly in place. I need to move my track about a centimeter in two directions before I go any further on the board. It's too close to the edge on the front and the side.

 

I'm also going to make a few more segments to start experimenting with detailing techniques. The casts had to be thin in order to be easily removable without damaging the foam shape. They're strong, but they're not rigid enough. I'm planning on using a thin skim-coat on the inside. Any motion will cause that to crumble. So I need to find a coating to apply to the outside of the casts to add rigidity.

 

I'm also going to add a short straight segment on the far side. But I'm going to use inobu's method for that. 

 

Hi Gavin,

looks amazing buddy,good effort.

Will this be incorporated into a hillside or mountain in any way or just free standing?

Do nt want to sound like an idiot here but what about a couple of layers of plaster cloth over it? It s light,rigid and gives a nice smooth finish.

Just a thought mate as it’s something I ve used plenty of with decent results,well as decent as my skill set will allow anyway😂😂

I m making a fairly large mountain for the back of mine,it ll be about 3’ wide x 2’ deep and 20” high and will cover all 8 tracks but will need to be completely removable.The intention is to make box sections for each level of track from foamcard then glue them together and then form the mountain from there,fingers crossed,sounds very simple when you re writing it down.

[gavino200]

10 hours ago, Pauljag900 said:

Hi Gavin,

looks amazing buddy,good effort.

Will this be incorporated into a hillside or mountain in any way or just free standing?

Do nt want to sound like an idiot here but what about a couple of layers of plaster cloth over it? It s light,rigid and gives a nice smooth finish.

Just a thought mate as it’s something I ve used plenty of with decent results,well as decent as my skill set will allow anyway😂😂

I m making a fairly large mountain for the back of mine,it ll be about 3’ wide x 2’ deep and 20” high and will cover all 8 tracks but will need to be completely removable.The intention is to make box sections for each level of track from foamcard then glue them together and then form the mountain from there,fingers crossed,sounds very simple when you re writing it down.

 

It's going to be covered. There'll be a city with a tram loop above it. The tunnel is really just a detail. There'll be a small window on two sides where you can look in and see the tunnel interior. Otherwise just the portals will be visible. 

 

It's also for practice and learning, as I wan't to make a partial subway layer on my next layout.

[cteno4]

Gavin,

 

you going to cut the slots for your light tubes?

 

also what is the internal texture like? Going to skin it with plaster and sand?

 

looks like you ended up using the resin cast fabric. Amazing how strong, light and s little flexible it is. I played with it a few years back (a friend gave me an expired roll from her clinic) and loved it, especially for anything that has to be moved at all as plaster cloth will tend to get brittle with age if it’s just a shell without a good base like foam.

 

great project! Kudos to you!

 

jeff

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

Gavin,

 

you going to cut the slots for your light tubes?

 

also what is the internal texture like? Going to skin it with plaster and sand?

 

looks like you ended up using the resin cast fabric. Amazing how strong, light and s little flexible it is. I played with it a few years back (a friend gave me an expired roll from her clinic) and loved it, especially for anything that has to be moved at all as plaster cloth will tend to get brittle with age if it’s just a shell without a good base like foam.

 

great project! Kudos to you!

 

jeff

 

The internal texture isn't bad. The 'step-off' where the rolls overlap is minimal. Yes, the plan is to cut slots for light tubes, pipes, and catenarys. Then plaster and sand for a 'concrete-like' surface. 

 

I'd like to find some kind of brush-on fiberglass like material to add to the exterior to make it more rigid. I could used bondo I guess. 

 

It's a bit nuts that all this trouble is just so we can look in through a couple of small windows and see a "real" (ish) looking tunnel. But it's been fun, and I'm sure what I've learned will have applications in future. 

 

[cteno4]

But will be way cool for the camera car!

 

might look at then stuff they paint over the cast foam stuff to make hard sculptures (half of Las Vegas is made of this). Goes on like really thick paint but then drys hard like fiberglass resin. Less messy. Very sandable as well but I think not cheap in smaller quantities.

fiberglass is an option. Really easy just mix resin, paint it on then lay on the fiberglass cloth the paint on some more resting dabbing it into the cloth to make sure soaked. Just messy and sticky operation. Bondo might work but I would test on a test section if you have it. Not sure how it will hold up over an large area with stress, it’s meant for thin applications, not thick, but may work as you need it.

 

a foam core or 5mm foam base like 1-2” wide epoxied to the outsides may give a lot of wrack strength. Then make some uprights with the tunnel cross section cut out to make a frame things above can rest on, just position them in the inbetween of your light spacing.

 

or just a few more layers of cast material but that could get pricy as well.

 

again experiment if you have a test section to find out what works for you!

 

jeff

[gavino200]

1 hour ago, cteno4 said:

But will be way cool for the camera car!

 

might look at then stuff they paint over the cast foam stuff to make hard sculptures (half of Las Vegas is made of this). Goes on like really thick paint but then drys hard like fiberglass resin. Less messy. Very sandable as well but I think not cheap in smaller quantities.

fiberglass is an option. Really easy just mix resin, paint it on then lay on the fiberglass cloth the paint on some more resting dabbing it into the cloth to make sure soaked. Just messy and sticky operation. Bondo might work but I would test on a test section if you have it. Not sure how it will hold up over an large area with stress, it’s meant for thin applications, not thick, but may work as you need it.

 

a foam core or 5mm foam base like 1-2” wide epoxied to the outsides may give a lot of wrack strength. Then make some uprights with the tunnel cross section cut out to make a frame things above can rest on, just position them in the inbetween of your light spacing.

 

or just a few more layers of cast material but that could get pricy as well.

 

again experiment if you have a test section to find out what works for you!

 

jeff

 

Thanks. Some great ideas. A base would make it completely rigid. In fact I casted the segments with a base. But I removed the base so I can access the inside for modelling. I could put a base on later, but that would be too late to stop the plaster from cracking while I'm working on it. (That may not happen, but I'd rather not risk it).

 

The cast material is free for me. (If you ever need some just let me know). Three layers are completely rigid but impossible to get off the mold. Two is fairly rigid but tends to damage the mold on removal. One layer is perfect, simple to remove - but not very rigid. In any case it will only need about 2mm extra thickness to make it completely rigid. 

 

The cast material works well when rolled on but doesn't work very well when applied in strips (papier mache style). I'm going to look into your first two suggestions. The third seems more complex but would probably work. 

 

I think I'll keep/make pieces to 'shut the windows' for an eventual camera train run :)

Edited April 23, 2018 by gavino200

[gavino200]

These are the windows for looking into the tunnel. They're just mock ups. I'm going to get taller hardboard panel  pieces and cut window into them in these shapes. I'll have to get someone else to make the cuts.

 

 

 

I also did a little practice on a spare tunnel piece. I think these lights are placed a bit too high. Next I'll have to work out how to attach the pipes and cables to the curved walls. Once I get that worked out I'll harden the outside with resin, and coat the inside with plaster. If I have any success with the practice piece, I'll get started on the final tunnel pieces.

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by gavino200

[Pauljag900]

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

These are the windows for looking into the tunnel. They're just mock ups. I'm going to get taller hardboard panel  pieces and cut window into them in these shapes. I'll have to get someone else to make the cuts.

 

 

 

I also did a little practice on a spare tunnel piece. I think these lights are placed a bit too high. Next I'll have to work out how to attach the pipes and cables to the curved walls. Once I get that worked out I'll harden the outside with resin, and coat the inside with plaster. If I have any success with the practice piece, I'll get started on the final tunnel pieces.

 

 

Superb Gavin,they are going to look fantastic and very unique.good effort buddy,well done👍😀

i love the facials on the edge of the layout too,it tidies everything up nicely,something I m hoping to tackle in the next couple of weeks.I ve got some nice grey,wood effect laminate flooring left over from the lounge which will be ideal👍😀

Edited May 6, 2018 by Pauljag900

[gavino200]

I tried a few hardeners. Epoxy resin was the best, but I don't think it's possible to get the rigidity I'm looking for that way.

 

Instead, I made a sort of exoskeleton out of thick card. It's not completely rigid but very close. I applied a coat of vinyl spackle to the inside today. That should have some resistance against crumbling with slight movement. If it works, I think I can make it myself by mixing regular skim coat with latex paint. 

[gavino200]

A little more work on the practice tunnel section. The vinyl spakle should work well. However, I need to learn how to apply it without creating so many air bubbles. The bubbles make the smoothing process difficult. The finish on this piece is not very smooth, but I'm going to leave it like this, and use this piece to experiment with techniques for fastening details to the tunnel, after I paint it. I'll either use a grey primer spray can, or make it my first airbrush experiment. 

 

I'm going to use a different split tunnel practice piece to keep working on plaster technique while I continue using this piece to practice detailing. I want to play with the idea of etching "concrete joints" into the plaster before painting it. 

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by gavino200

[cteno4]

Nice experimenting! Really helps to dial in what gets you closest to what you want.

 

I wonder if using a fine gray marker very close to your cement color would be easier to make the panel lines. Gundam markers maybe?

 

jeff

[gavino200]

15 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Nice experimenting! Really helps to dial in what gets you closest to what you want.

 

I wonder if using a fine gray marker very close to your cement color would be easier to make the panel lines. Gundam markers maybe?

 

jeff

 

This kind of thing? 

https://www.amazon.com/Gundam-Marker-Ultra-Fine-Grey/dp/B001VJUWX4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1527304692&sr=8-1&keywords=gundam+marker+grey+fine

 

I'll give it a try.

[cteno4]

Yeah. There are also fine gray sets at the art/craft store to do comic illustrations as well. 

 

Also I remeber the bubbles in spackle could be from it being mixed too thin. I had to do loads of it to fix the very old texture coat on very old plaster walls with cove ceilings in a house we owned. Thicker worked better. Hard thing you have with the skim coat here is it curves two ways, not just one in the situation of a cove ceiling!

 

cheers

 

jeff