Gavino200's Layout phase II - Modeling

[cteno4]

Beautiful!

 

jeff

[Kiha66]

WOW!  This is insane, it came out amazing!  The lights, the signals, the cables, you need send some pictures to model railroader!

[gavino200]

There are a couple of parts left before the tunnel will be completely finished. A straight segment on the far side with a flat faced "Seikan type" portal, and hopefully an angled concrete "Shinkansen/ICE type" portal in front. Before I do these parts, I'm going to wait until construction of the "city" that will go over the tunnel is under way. 

 

Also I want to make door pieces out of the tunnel window cutouts. If I drive a camera train through the tunnel I don't want to see a giant window with a view of Gulliver land (not Lilliput - the giant land). I'm hoping to put LEDs in the door pieces and supply electricity through magnet contacts. 

 

But for the time being I'm going to give it a rest, and start thinking about how I plan a transition from low ground to high ground that wont look ridiculous.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by gavino200

[Pauljag900]

It s been a long haul project Gavin that’s for sure but now we see why,it looks superb! Good effort buddy

[JR 500系]

Wow that tunnel just looks amazing with all that light in there! Very nice! 

 

Are you gonna take the camera car in there for a little spin?  😛

[gavino200]

I think I'm at a turning point with my "modeling" and I'm considering a slight change of direction here. I'm going to admit why, from the beginning, I've always planned an "all urban" layout. It's because landscape modelling is so intimidating and bewildering to me that I thought I could never do it. I just don't have the artistic chops for it. On the other hand I could imagine myself learning enough to make a decent street and sidewalk, and making a city out of Tomytec buildings. That's basically been my entire strategy. 

 

However, I'm at an impasse here. I've looked at a lot of inspirational layouts, and I'm beginning to realize that building significant gradients into an urban layout actually demands very advanced modeling skill, and significant modification to structures. I've been hoping to climb a scale height of around five stories in the space of a few city blocks. Even when broken up into stages, this is extremely difficult. The highest road incline on the planet is 35% grade. After that the tires lose traction. Even for cities like San Francisco or Chongqing with massive gradients, they tend to have an "unreal" look about them. 

 

So I might change my plan to creating a sort of mountain/hilly area. I'd like to fit in some buildings and perhaps experiment on a small scale with graded roads and buildings. My modelling skill is still extremely rudimentary, but I've learned a fair bit about some of the materials that modelers use. I think I have enough confidence to try laying out some foam and attempting to contour a few hills.

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by gavino200

[bill937ca]

You could try doing a green tea plantation.

 

http://visitjapan2019.com/venues/interest/shizuoka/shizuoka-tea

 

 

[gavino200]

I realized tonight that in some ways I actually have too much stuff on my layout. It's gotten quite cluttered lately. I bought a few "sets" of vehicles, and I'm amazed how quickly they crowded the layout. 12 trailers and a bunch of construction sets really pushed it over the edge. Honestly, I can't even imagine what kind of layout needs an influx of 12 trailers all at once. So I took a bunch of stuff off the layout, including all but 1 of the trailers, a bunch of construction stuff, and the last few remaining low quality American houses. I've committed to a few ideas now on the layout. I have to start being more deliberate and choosy about what I buy. Also, with the exception of details and some buildings, it's really more about modelling and scenery from now on. 

 

I'm thinking of some kind of "mountain" for the end of the layout with the tunnel. But I'd like it to have a road, and some development (buildings), and something that will provide an excuse to have a Tram/DC track travelling there from the other side of the layout.

 

I'd also like to add some elevation in other places too. Maybe raising the yard a few centimeters. And perhaps raising ground level at the far end of the layout. The track is already raised at that end. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by gavino200

[Khaul]

I would design around your wonderful tunnel. It is such a great feature!

[Pauljag900]

On 8/2/2018 at 10:57 PM, gavino200 said:

I think I'm at a turning point with my "modeling" and I'm considering a slight change of direction here. I'm going to admit why, from the beginning, I've always planned an "all urban" layout. It's because landscape modelling is so intimidating and bewildering to me that I thought I could never do it. I just don't have the artistic chops for it. On the other hand I could imagine myself learning enough to make a decent street and sidewalk, and making a city out of Tomytec buildings. That's basically been my entire strategy. 

 

However, I'm at an impasse here. I've looked at a lot of inspirational layouts, and I'm beginning to realize that building significant gradients into an urban layout actually demands very advanced modeling skill, and significant modification to structures. I've been hoping to climb a scale height of around five stories in the space of a few city blocks. Even when broken up into stages, this is extremely difficult. The highest road incline on the planet is 35% grade. After that the tires lose traction. Even for cities like San Francisco or Chongqing with massive gradients, they tend to have an "unreal" look about them. 

 

So I might change my plan to creating a sort of mountain/hilly area. I'd like to fit in some buildings and perhaps experiment on a small scale with graded roads and buildings. My modelling skill is still extremely rudimentary, but I've learned a fair bit about some of the materials that modelers use. I think I have enough confidence to try laying out some foam and attempting to contour a few hills.

 

 Hi Gavin,

i can only speak from my own personal experiences here mate but I m sure we re all the same and all had to start somewhere,never be afraid to have a go,the worse that can happen is that it looks crap and you start again but it’s no big deal.This is my 5th or 6 th attempt in as many years and it’s still far from perfect but each time I learnt something,building small modules,which is what I m doing now being one of the biggest lessons learnt.

The hardest thing I ve found is in the world of N Gauge and trying to get it looking realistic sometimes do nt go hand in hand and reaching a compromise is sometimes necessary,I guess looking believable is sometimes the way it has to be.

with that tunnel you built and your obvious abundance of patience I doubt very much you ll have any issues creating a village or a few hills😂😂👍

[gavino200]

5 hours ago, Pauljag900 said:

...the worse that can happen is that it looks crap and you start again but it’s no big deal....

 

This is sage advice. Thanks. 

 

I'm planning to start playing with this after I finish a loco project that I'm working on. For the moment I'm working on trying to imagine a plan that I like. I've been browsing layout pictures for ideas. I may try playing around with a big piece of plasticine or clay. 

 

Also I need to decide on a "reason" for a tram to go from a town to a hill about a mile away. Maybe an onsen/castle/temple? Or maybe I could have residential buildings in the hills like in Hong Kong or something?

[railsquid]

45 minutes ago, gavino200 said:

 

This is sage advice. Thanks. 

 

I'm planning to start playing with this after I finish a loco project that I'm working on. For the moment I'm working on trying to imagine a plan that I like. I've been browsing layout pictures for ideas. I may try playing around with a big piece of plasticine or clay. 

 

Also I need to decide on a "reason" for a tram to go from a town to a hill about a mile away. Maybe an onsen/castle/temple? Or maybe I could have residential buildings in the hills like in Hong Kong or something?

 

No shortage of hillsides speckled with residential buildings in Japan. Personally I avoid them like the plague due to propensity of said hills to slide downwards and/or direct epic quantities of mud directly at and through your property (which is why Chez Railsquid is located on the watershed of a nice reasonably flat plateau), but sometime you see properties built on platforms extending out from 45 degree slopes.

 

For playing around, I recommend mock-ups using bits of cardboard:

road-incline-2 by Rail Squid, on Flickr

 

and build most of my hills out of bits of styrofoam, which is easy to carve roughly into the desired shape (avoid polystyrene except as filler blocks) and surfaced with "Das" clay and/or plaster cloth.

 

slope-scenery-progress by Rail Squid, on Flickr

[Pauljag900]

2 hours ago, gavino200 said:

 

This is sage advice. Thanks. 

 

I'm planning to start playing with this after I finish a loco project that I'm working on. For the moment I'm working on trying to imagine a plan that I like. I've been browsing layout pictures for ideas. I may try playing around with a big piece of plasticine or clay. 

 

Also I need to decide on a "reason" for a tram to go from a town to a hill about a mile away. Maybe an onsen/castle/temple? Or maybe I could have residential buildings in the hills like in Hong Kong or something?

You do nt need a reason mate ha ha,but yeah any of those would be good.

ARe you going to do it in a loop or a single track back and forth using a control board?

 

[gavino200]

21 minutes ago, Pauljag900 said:

You do nt need a reason mate ha ha,but yeah any of those would be good.

ARe you going to do it in a loop or a single track back and forth using a control board?

 

 

I was originally planning on a loop at both ends. But either setup would be fine. I think the aesthetics will be the deciding factor.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by gavino200

[Pauljag900]

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

 

I was originally planning on a loop at both ends. But either setup would be fine. I think the aesthetics will be the deciding factor.

 

 

And space mate.

i had two on my old layout and they work pretty good to be fair mate,

back and forth tram at 1 min 20 secs,give you some idea

 

[gavino200]

3 hours ago, Pauljag900 said:

And space mate.

i had two on my old layout and they work pretty good to be fair mate,

back and forth tram at 1 min 20 secs,give you some idea

 

 

Thanks. Yes, that's essentially what I had in mind. I actually have all the track bought for it. At one end my tram takes a loop through an urban area. The second loop was originally planned as a loop through a second urban area. However, my second urban area may now become a hill/mountain. Your minor loop is nicely hidden under viaduct tracks. I'll have to see what the plan for the general area is to see whether I can, feature, hide or partially feature/partially hide the second loop. 

 

Btw. I never appreciated how large your layout is. I think the mirrors might have the effect of actually making it look smaller than it really is. When you notice them, it breaks the illusion and forces you to see the loop as a fraction of what first meets the eye. I think your layout would look substantially better without the mirrors. Even just plane sky color, or even shed wall would be better.

 

But it's an amazing layout and I always love looking at it. Thanks for sharing the video.

[Pauljag900]

Thanks Gavin 👍 I do actually intend to put a backscene poster up all the way around but will just use the mirrors as the support to fasten it to.Once this module is done for the back of the layout I want to fit yard lights to the storage/display area on the right then the poster will be bought..

[gavino200]

The next modeling phase won't be directly on the layout. I'm going to make two small modules to practice with. they'll be about two by two feet or maybe smaller. One will be urban and the other rural. I don't have scenes in mind yet but I'm fairly clear about the goals I wan't to accomplish.

 

Goals for the urban module

1. Learn to make streets and sidewalks

2. Learn to incorporate buildings (flat terrain only)

3. Street lighting and traffic lights

4. Incorporate Tomix tram track into a street and paint to disguise it.

5. Build a "story" or event into the scene. 

 

 

Goals for the rural scene

1. Learn to make grass

2. Learn to make and place foliage

3. Experiment with a backdrop

4. Incorporate a single line of piko track and experiment with ballasting

5. Experiment with some modest inclines and landscaping.

 

I probably have a month's worth of miscellaneous small project to complete before I get round to this. But I'm going to start now drawing sketches and looking for inspiration. I'm also going to shift from randomly buying train related items, to focusing on one project at a time and just sticking with them until they're done. Less haste. more quality.

[cteno4]

Gavin,

 

sounds like some good experimenting. Might look at doing some of these separate smaller tests as it may be easier to redo if needed and also deal with over all scene design, then apply where needed to your larger scene tests here. Some things like ballasting just take a bunch of small tests to get down and also get the exact effect you want. I’ve aleays been a fan of trying any scenery technique first on a little bit of cardboard before doing any real scene test. Helps me learn the gotchas if any fast and with very little investment. Good tests can become swatches for later scene design work as well as documentation of any adaptations you may try (most scenery techniques can use multiple glues, scenic items, sequences to different effect and ease of use or cost).

 

for straight street track it’s really easy to do your own with regular Tomix or Kato track. With unitrak just lay down 3/16” foam core up to the roadbed then you can top that with photoboard (thin, dense chipboard at art store for mounting photos on) over to the track. Photoboard is just right to go over on top of the spike heads and leave just enough rail head peaking up for good running. Then use a 1/4” x 060 stryene strip to go down the center of the rails as it’s just enough to bit between spike heads and gaps just enough for good running. Then top with either paint or printed roadways and tramway patterns.

 

Curves of course are more of a challenge to cut top piece and center pieces and that’s where Tomix wide rail solves the between tracks bit for you but still have to fare up to the outside sides.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

20 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Gavin,

 

sounds like some good experimenting. Might look at doing some of these separate smaller tests as it may be easier to redo if needed and also deal with over all scene design, then apply where needed to your larger scene tests here. Some things like ballasting just take a bunch of small tests to get down and also get the exact effect you want. I’ve aleays been a fan of trying any scenery technique first on a little bit of cardboard before doing any real scene test. Helps me learn the gotchas if any fast and with very little investment. Good tests can become swatches for later scene design work as well as documentation of any adaptations you may try (most scenery techniques can use multiple glues, scenic items, sequences to different effect and ease of use or cost).

 

Great idea.

 

20 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

for straight street track it’s really easy to do your own with regular Tomix or Kato track. With unitrak just lay down 3/16” foam core up to the roadbed then you can top that with photoboard (thin, dense chipboard at art store for mounting photos on) over to the track. Photoboard is just right to go over on top of the spike heads and leave just enough rail head peaking up for good running. Then use a 1/4” x 060 stryene strip to go down the center of the rails as it’s just enough to bit between spike heads and gaps just enough for good running. Then top with either paint or printed roadways and tramway patterns.

 

Curves of course are more of a challenge to cut top piece and center pieces and that’s where Tomix wide rail solves the between tracks bit for you but still have to fare up to the outside sides.

 

jeff

 

I think, for the tram tracks, the main challange will be painting and marking them so they'll blend with the road color and markings without gunking up the rails.

[chadbag]

3 hours ago, cteno4 said:

 

for straight street track it’s really easy to do your own with regular Tomix or Kato track. With unitrak just lay down 3/16” foam core up to the roadbed then you can top that with photoboard (thin, dense chipboard at art store for mounting photos on) over to the track. Photoboard is just right to go over on top of the spike heads and leave just enough rail head peaking up for good running. Then use a 1/4” x 060 stryene strip to go down the center of the rails as it’s just enough to bit between spike heads and gaps just enough for good running. Then top with either paint or printed roadways and tramway patterns.

 

Curves of course are more of a challenge to cut top piece and center pieces and that’s where Tomix wide rail solves the between tracks bit for you but still have to fare up to the outside sides.

 

 

 

Do you happen to have photos or anything of this?  Trying to envision it

[gavino200]

11 minutes ago, chadbag said:

 

 

Do you happen to have photos or anything of this?  Trying to envision it

 

It's a piece of foamboard on each side of the rail - plus a slither of styrene between the rails. 

 

That's not what I understood when I glanced at it earlier. I didn't realize that Jeff was talking about using regular (non tram) track. I'm totally focused on my tram track as I already own the stuff. 

 

This method could work well. It would need to be very accurately done or it would look ghetto. But sinking the tram track into a street also looks fairly ghetto, so neither solution is perfect.

 

I'd love to find a solution to making a tramline junction piece.

 

[chadbag]

1 minute ago, gavino200 said:

 

It's a piece of foamboard on each side of the rail - plus a slither of styrene between the rails. 

 

That's not what I understood when I glanced at it earlier. I didn't realize that Jeff was talking about using regular (non tram) track. I'm totally focused on my tram track as I already own the stuff. 

 

This method could work well. It would need to be very accurately done or it would look ghetto. But sinking the tram track into a street also looks fairly ghetto, so neither solution is perfect.

 

I'd love to find a solution to making a tramline junction piece.

 

 

Ah, ok.  My mind was getting too complicated when I read it the first time.  Re-reading it now with your interpretation makes more sense...

 

Since I'll be building my temporary layout over the next 2 years (then we move to a house where I should have a real train room), and I now have a tram, and don't already own tram track, this could be interesting.

[cteno4]

its just foamboard to build up 90% of the height to the rail head. photoboard does the rest of the way up to be almost flush with the rail head (best to keep just below to make sure nothing pops above the railhead). photo board also spans from the edge of the roadbed over to the rail. if you wanted you could lay in a sheet of paper below the road for the tramway to give it a bit of rise from the roadway like some have, but i think this can be better done via an image effect than trying to get a tiny change it would be at scale.

 

its super easy to make and lets you easily print what kind of road and tram surface you want and just glue it down on top of the photoboard. you can of course paint and try to put road markings down with decals, paint etc. i just like printing as its fast and easy to play with ideas. almost all surface texture, even cobblestone is sooooo tiny (like a fraction of a mm high) you would never see it if done at scale from a foot or more away and you can play with textures to give just the right effect you want. you can even print in manhole covers, drains, cracks, road stains, etc or do those secondarily. painting or pin taping street lines can be painful and hard to do near scale as line are less than 1mm wide at scale (0.5mm for 3" line.) You can also mix and match with some printing and some by decals, paint, rubons, weathering stuff, pin tape, etc.

 

ive done this on my ttrak and have rough streets ive always meant to improve but never got to yet... but even quick and dirty is about the same look as unitram detailing. i just did the center of the road tramway with 2 auto lanes on either side. i literally put 10 ttrak modules together with the layers and printing in one evening.

 

curves of course are the issue in doing this method. really horrid on standard 25mm ttrak corners (they do really odd jogs to make the curve and keep tracks spaced back to right next to each other, sort of like the curves in unitram). but with single radius curves you can cut the materials pretty easily with a dremel, a compass arm, and a cutter bit. 

[gavino200]

28 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

 

The cross section diagram is super helpful.

 

How do you design the road print? What program do you use? Do you still have the files?

Edited December 6, 2018 by cteno4
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