Interesting German HO Tram Layout

[bill937ca]

Earlier this week I came across an interesting German HO tram layout known as Gummersbach Strabenbahn. The original layout was a rectangle, but later videos show two additions on either side of a central control panel. In the videos it runs two rail (which seems to be accepted in Germany judging by Kleine Straßenbahn ganz groß videos but not so much in North America).   Later videos  show the addition of line poles and some overhead.

 

There is a central three track square or platz which is the focus of the layout. Trams are continuously coming and going. Trams loop around either end and across the top of the layout. It is a complicated track plan with reversing loops. All this is controlled from a central control panel.

 

Videos by choppernachladung.

 

 

The Tatra trams common in the old Soviet block were scratch built using plastic and Halling drives.

 

 

There is mention that the track is Luna, which offers asphalt and paving stone surfaces, but I think his intersections are self built.

 

The modeller calls this layout Neu Gummersbach and this video during the construction of the new layout gives you an idea of the initial track plan.

 

 

I am planning a variation of this layout for running my Japanese trams.I find this layout much more interesting  and challenging than just running trams around and around.

Edited October 28, 2017 by bill937ca

[cteno4]

beware of the reversing loops in there!

 

jeff

[velotrain]

Any indication of how he controls all this?  Looks like he also has some busses, so it will be interesting to see how he fits them in. 

[kvp]

I think there are no reverse loops in there. The layout has an outer double track loop and the tracks coming off from the outer loop join the inner loop on the other side. This is true for both double track reversing tracks. This means if both the outer and inner loops have fixed and opposing running directions, then 'reversing' just puts the trams on the other loop. Besides that there is a storage barn in one side, a bypass loop in the center and a single track line on the other side, which also joins the right direction. This means the whole setup is polarity matched and something similar could be built with standard unitram plates without any reversing loops. (if you make a loop and add an S and a mirrored S next to each other in the center)

 

For control, both analog block control and dcc is a possibility.

 

ps: Two rail operation is common with off the shelf H0 trams and the video shows lots of them.

[bill937ca]

12 minutes ago, kvp said:

I think there are no reverse loops in there.  This means the whole setup is polarity matched and something similar could be built with standard unitram plates without any reversing loops. (if you make a loop and add an S and a mirrored S next to each other in the center)

 

 

How would you build this with Unitram?

[kvp]

24 minutes ago, bill937ca said:

 

How would you build this with Unitram?

What is missing is the yard on the left and the single track line on the right, but adding a few single track straights to the middle and using standard unitrack to branch off would allow those to be added. The basic layout however is there on the image above. It's completly polarity correct and even a single controller would allow direction correct operation on all tracks on both loops.

[bill937ca]

Thank you KVP.

[velotrain]

kvp - I meant tram control.  It looked like he had three - or more, of them running at the same time.

 

There are quite a few situations where a tram comes over a crossing and then seconds later another tram runs on the track that was crossed.

 

Following distance is also often quite small.

 

I'm wondering what sort of overall control system do you think he is using.

Edited October 29, 2017 by velotrain
amended

[bill937ca]

I"ve heard these layouts use a simple on/off switch run off the control panel. The switch is set to off, when you want that tram moving just flick the switch. The power load is not high with a tram and you are not dragging a line of cars.

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by bill937ca

[kvp]

1 hour ago, velotrain said:

kvp - I meant tram control.  It looked like he had three - or more, of them running at the same time.

On the construction video you can see three trams running and the control board is visible too. It has a single speed controller, some ancient TT turnout controls and a large row of on/off switches with one switch for each block. Essentially the trams run continously forward at a set speed, while the turnouts guide them to one of the routes, and the trailing switches are spring loaded. Pretty much how unitram is designed. The on/off switches allow trams to be stopped in each block and the layout has lots of them. You can reproduce this with unitram by using feeders under each non turnout section and isolating them from each other with isolating joiners, while powering all of them from the same controller through Kato on/off switches. You could stop a tram by taking the power from the section it is running in. Roughly speed matched trams will be required for it to run smoothly and tram to tram distances will have to be adjusted by stopping the trailing tram from time to time. Also it's a manual juggling to stop them from colliding at the crossings. This is a crude, but simple way of block control.

[bill937ca]

So no reversing loops because each block is isolated from the others and each block has a separate feeder (with on/off control)?

[kvp]

1 hour ago, bill937ca said:

So no reversing loops because each block is isolated from the others and each block has a separate feeder (with on/off control)?

No reversing loops because the whole layout has no need for reversed polarity. You could trace the tracks to check that it matches polarity everywhere as each reversing part just switches to the opposite running loop, which has the right polarity. On/off control is only used to stop the trams and you could even get away with only isolating one rail. (just trace it which one is that as the inner rail has the polarity reversed due to track geometry, pretty much how the old ttrak wiring goes)

[velotrain]

> Also it's a manual juggling to stop them from colliding at the crossings. This is a crude, but simple way of block control.

 

It sounds like he probably rehearses what he wants to do before shooting the video, to have it look so scripted. 

 

It also sounds very activity intense, so I'm guessing that the operation scheme is much more casual when he's just doing it for himself.

[Gordon Werner]

thanks for posting this ... reminds me of this dutch layout with a really awesome automated staging yard 

http://www.marks-modeltrambaan.nl/Video.htm

 

 

 

 

[velotrain]

Who manufactures the four road carbarn that we so often see in these larger layouts?  I have no doubt that it's European in origin.

[Densha]

This one you mean? (Faller 194675)

 

https://www.faller.de/App/WebObjects/XSeMIPS.woa/cms/page/pid.14.17.89/agid.1127.1390/atid.6807/ecm.at/Straßenbahndepot-Dresden.html

Edited October 31, 2017 by Densha

[bill937ca]

27 minutes ago, velotrain said:

Who manufactures the four road carbarn that we so often see in these larger layouts?  I have no doubt that it's European in origin.

  

Its origin is in the old Pola line, now its offered by Faller as from the legendary Pola series "Meister Model".   It is on so many layouts at model tram exhibitions.

[bill937ca]

Wiking excavator automated with a servio on the Rheinberger StraBenbahn Betreibe.  Video by Mark.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by bill937ca

[cteno4]

there is a guy in our local z scale club thats done some amazing arduino  controlled servo animations of excavator, a pipe loading crane and other things. really amazing as its in Z! we will see them at a show in two weeks and i hope he has some new ones. Hopefully he has them up on a site and some videos on youtube now he showed me some on his phone last year. really amazing.

 

jeff

[kvp]

On 10/30/2017 at 9:10 PM, Gordon Werner said:

thanks for posting this ... reminds me of this dutch layout with a really awesome automated staging yard 

I searched for the trackplan:

http://www.h0-modellbahnforum.de/t319292f54849-Modell-Strassenbahn-Ausstellung-in-Erfurt-Mai.html

http://www.lokschuppen-dominik.de/Ausstellungen/Erfurt-2011/Rheinberger Strassenbahn (46).jpg

As you can see, it's essentially a giant loop (in a dogbone arrangement) with one large through shadow station and a smaller visible depot with stub tracks between the two through tracks and a simple bypass track between these two. The trams follow each other in a fifo way, automatically stopping if the block before them is occupied or if the logic is telling them to (at the head blocks of the yard if there is no route to continue and in a timed way in the stops). Imho the previous layout with the two S curve crossovers were more interesting operationally, but would be much harder to automate for unattended operation.

[bill937ca]

Mark post information on Rheinberger StraBenbahn Betriebe (RSB) on a Dutch language discussion board including many interesting photos.

 

https://forum.beneluxspoor.net/index.php/topic,49508.0.html

 

There is further information on Mark's own website.

 

http://www.marks-modeltrambaan.nl/index.htm

Edited November 3, 2017 by bill937ca

[brill27mcb]

Wow!!

 

Rich K.

[velotrain]

I'm amazed that he's willing to transport all of this to train shows, and set-up all of those trams on the staging tracks.

 

Not to mention packing it all back up again at the end of the show.

[bill937ca]

I'm amazed he goes across the Channel for a train show. I find usually these things are kind of local.

 

[bill937ca]

I am working on setting up a Unitram version of the Gummersbach Strabenbahn layout. I took a hiatus after Christmas to deal with some family issues. I should have a progress report along with photos and perhaps a video in a little while. Meanwhile looking at ordering more tram and Unitram control items.