Looking for Tram Advice

[smat racer]

I am interested in building a tram layout, I have searched and read...looking advice on a good starter set...Kato...Tomix...or?....thanks

[velotrain]

Only Kato offers tram starter sets, although some are track only and the trams / controllers are separate.

 

Looks like they're largely sold out for now, unless you want to pay a lot on eBay.

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?typ1_c=101&cat=&state=&sold=0&sortid=0&searchkey=kato+tram+start+set

 

Track only sets are available, and multiple suppliers have plenty of individual track sections

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?typ1_c=101&cat=&state=&sold=0&sortid=0&searchkey=kato+unitram+track+set

 

Kato Portrams are also sold out from the Japan dealers most folks here deal with, although available on eBay for a minimum of $100 including shipping.

 

You can buy Tomix track - tram and/or otherwise, and then buy individual trams by Modemo and other producers.

 

David at L1H currently has a few Modemo units available.

 

https://www.loco1hobby.net/en/172-n-modemo

 

You could also get inexpensive trams from Tomytec, but then you would need to buy their power chassis - see Hobby Search.

 

If you searched you should know what the various options look like and what each company has available - in the end it's your call.

[kvp]

There are two tram track systems. Kato with its fixed double track street plates (unitram) and Tomix with the more flexible street tracks that could be combined with the moving bus road plates. (finetrack tram and road) Tomix and Tomytec is cheaper as you get assembly kits (shell+motor chassis) for trams and buses and you have to put them together. Their track is similar, you can buy starter ovals but they come as track pieces and you have to build your own track setup instead of the preassembled Kato street plates that have tracks, roads and even traffic markings in a single piece fixed large plate. This makes the Tomix/Tomytec system more flexible but it needs more thinking and setup time. Big bonus is the possibility to also run buses and the fact that you can build complex tracks and streets with Tomix instead of the huge fixed pieces of the Kato unitram system.

[smat racer]

velotrain and kvp...thank you for your time and help

[Madsing]

I just would like to add that I run Kato trams (modified for DCC) on Tomix tracks without problem.


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[kvp]

29 minutes ago, Madsing said:

I just would like to add that I run Kato trams (modified for DCC) on Tomix tracks without problem.

 

Most N gauge trams could run on any manufacturer's tracks (including europeans) as long minimum radius rules are kept. This is usually 140mm, which is the basic curve of the Tomix mini track system and also used for mini turouts, tram and roadbead tracks. Both Tomix, Kato, Modemo and most other trams could run on it. Anything below this could be too sharp for many of them.

 

ps: For tram and tram like interurban systems, there are two main categories. One is the low platform, almost street level entry and the other is the high platform variant. A few trams could use both but usually it's either one or the other. Imho determining the platform height used by the desired tram fleet is important during layout design. Also tram and platform lengths have to be taken into consideration to make sure the planned rolling stock will fit into the stations.

[bill937ca]

With Unitram tram tracks alone you will find that you are restricted to square or rectangular layout shapes by 33mm curve and turnout track center that effectively limits Unitram to 45 degree curves only.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by bill937ca

[velotrain]

5 hours ago, Madsing said:

I just would like to add that I run Kato trams (modified for DCC) on Tomix tracks without problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Where do you fit the decoder?  I have read that the Kato Portram innards are very delicate, so you are quite brave to do this conversion.

[cteno4]

There was actually a decoder board made to replace the kato power control circuit board. It was a third party solution from Japan. Westfalen, one of the members here installed one.

 

http://www.snjpn.com/ngdcc/de28/de28TLRKj.htm

 

 

it is extra work to convert these manually as the whole motor work and power control board are built into the trucks using tiny lower voltage motors. This makes it very difficult to get decoder wires into the circuit how you would normally do it in a loco, and this why the whole power board replacement. You should be able to put in a double sided insulated contact to route the power from the pickup strips, thru the decoder and then to the power board they way it's done on many locos. The kato power board drops the voltage from the usual 0-12v track feed to something like 0 to 4-6v range for the tiny motors. The shells and innards are very delicate and more fiddle than most trams, locos and power cars, but the power board not horribly hidden. Will require tearing up the inside details some to have the wires feeding in and I guess locate the decoder in the roof. Neat thing about the Kato portrams is you have full interior detail, the only tram out there like that! Wires and holes for that may ruin that some if you mind that. Lots of room for the decoder though!

 

here is a thread with some more info and links to pulling apart portrams

 

Tomytec mechs are easier to whack at than the kato portrams, modemos are also more accessible inside. Kato portrams are rather exotic beasties.

 

jeff

[kvp]

Kato only makes this one Portram mech in many colors, while Tomytec has a wide range of trams with very simple and robust motor chassies. They are among the easiest to wire up with a decoder as there are always two power pickup brass strips and two motor tabs. Just have to separate the two connection points between them and add an at least 4 wire motor decoder. There are always space for weights and then some more, so most smaller decoders will fit. This is true for all Tomytec motors chassies. For DC operation, you just put the shell on and add detail parts. Also one motor could be shared between any number of differently painted tram shells of the same type as it's easy to swap them.

[Madsing]

20 hours ago, velotrain said:

 

Where do you fit the decoder?  I have read that the Kato Portram innards are very delicate, so you are quite brave to do this conversion.

I used the DE28TLRK decoder from NGDCC in Japan (http://www.snjpn.com/ngdcc/indexj.htm). It's the decoder described by Jeff above. They work very well and also provide control over the front, tail and inside lights (which is definitely a plus for trams). However, they are a bit difficult to install. They are just a bit too large and you need to solder the LEDs as well as the motor wires.

[Madsing]

On 09/10/2017 at 9:43 PM, bill937ca said:

With Unitram tram tracks alone you will find that you are restricted to square or rectangular layout shapes by 33mm curve and turnout track center that effectively limits Unitram to 45 degree curves only.

 

 

 

That's my tram layout, definitely something you can only make with Tomix tracks:

 

I have three trams automatically commuting between the main station and their end station.

[smat racer]

velotrain and kvp...thank you for your time and help

 

Thanks again for all the information help

 

[JR 500系]

Do note that Kato trams have pre-installed interior lights and frontal directional lights, which are of which missing from Tomytec models... And the Kato unitram track pieces, while restricting only to square modules, comes with pre-painted roads and looks pretty nice, hence it may be a quick way to get started...

 

And like the others have mentioned, Tomytec ones have a wide range of trams and track pieces, and the ability to join with moving bus system to make it look even better!

 

End of the day, it's like the comparison between Kato and Tomix and MicroAce and Greenmax models... there are plus and minus for them all, hence it will be mostly based in oneself opinion to decide ~~

[toc36]

Smat,

 

Will you be modelling Japan or another country?  Kato UniTram is coming out with right-handed markings:

https://www.walthers.com/unitram-v60-n-amer-style

 

Also, I have been disappointed with my Kato Portram.  My Modemo Trams run great.  

 

Mark

Edited October 11, 2017 by toc36

[smat racer]

1 hour ago, JR 500系 said:

Do note that Kato trams have pre-installed interior lights and frontal directional lights, which are of which missing from Tomytec models... And the Kato unitram track pieces, while restricting only to square modules, comes with pre-painted roads and looks pretty nice, hence it may be a quick way to get started...

 

And like the others have mentioned, Tomytec ones have a wide range of trams and track pieces, and the ability to join with moving bus system to make it look even better!

 

End of the day, it's like the comparison between Kato and Tomix and MicroAce and Greenmax models... there are plus and minus for them all, hence it will be mostly based in oneself opinion to decide ~~

Still on the fence between getting the Kato V50 Unitram set and expanding with single track pieces...or trying a Tomix layout...still reading and searching...but enjoying!

[toc36]

Smat,

 

If you go with Tomix Wide Tram, look at their 3076 and 3079 Tram Rail Accessories Kit.  You can cover their switches (forgot which one).  

 

You might want to contact Velotrain on TCS automation.

 

Mark

[bill937ca]

KatoUSA's Kato Portram page:

http://www.katousa.com/N/JSE/LRV.html

 

They are available from US dealers like M.B.Klein.

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/N-Scale-Trolley-Streetcars-Light-Rail-s/1510.htm

 

Hobbylinc

https://www.hobbylinc.com/kato-centram-light-rail-vehicle-lrv-streetcar-9001-white-n-scale-model-train-streetcar-148021

 

Also Hobby Search

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10119217

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10119216

 

 

Edited October 11, 2017 by bill937ca

[smat racer]

9 minutes ago, toc36 said:

Smat,

 

Will you be modelling Japan or another country?  Kato UniTram is coming out with right-handed markings:

https://www.walthers.com/unitram-v60-n-amer-style

 

Also, I have been disappointed with my Kato Portram.  My Modemo Trams run great.  

 

Mark

I have looked at the V60...but exchange rate and shipping cost is a factor when you live in Canada, so the V50 is more cost appealling, so I would model a Japan layout...what was the problem with your Portram?

[toc36]

My Kato Portram does not run smoothly.  There is a way to tune it, I just don't know how.  Throw it out there and I'm sure some other members will chime in with their experiences.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cteno4]

Toc,

 

they are ultra fiddly to pull apart. Check the forum links above as a couple of members did some photos on disassembly. They are fiddly and have been the crankier team with all our club members. I tore one down to the trucks and found a loose connection that was the issue but did not want to get into the truck itself (it wasn't my tram!)

 

Have you looked carefully at the bottom of the truck for any sucked up hairs? If so see if you can dig them out with very sharp tweezers.

 

cheers

 

jeff

 

ps good seeing you at the club dinner Sunday! Join us when you can.