Tomytec Adtranz GT6N trams

[bill937ca]

Well HS and AmiAmi have notified that my reservations are in.  I've ordered two of the Berlin car and two Munich cars. Should have my models soon.

 

Here are some links with prototype information.

 

Berlin GT6N technical specifications (German language)

http://www.berlin-straba.de/fahrzeuge/01_niederflur/index.html

http://www.berliner-verkehr.de/tfgt6n.htm

 

GT6N technical data chart (German language)

http://www.strassenbahn-online.de/Betriebshof/LF100/GT6N_Technische_Daten/index.html

 

Berlin GT6N history

http://www.strassenbahn-online.de/Betriebshof/LF100/GT6N_Berlin/index.html

 

Munich GT6N (type R)  history

http://www.strassenbahn-online.de/Betriebshof/LF100/GTxN_Muenchen/index.html

 

Short articulated trams article (in Hungarian) with a chapter on the first 100% low floor trams

http://archive.li/jIkJx

[kvp]

One correction to add though, the first 100% low floor trams were the 1896 stock of the Budapest underground. Running in both tunnel and surface sections, the cars had to be low floor to fit the shallow height available. Unlike modern designs or trams of that era, this was accomplished with a two bogie design.

 

The Tomix trams however use 2 axle limited rotation bogies, so the carbodys mostly rotate together with the axles. This results in the classic cobra movement shown on the last link. The real cars depend on the springs in the articulation to straighten. The Tomix mech depends on the center bogie being locked, so the rails would align the tram. This works as long as there is no side play between the wheels and the rails. Tomix's own tram track is slightly wider though, so the trams don't quite straighten out. I wonder if the european trams get a better mech or a better (spring assisted) shell. Please update us on the first test runs.

[railsquid]

Mine will arrive today; tried to get one yesterday in person Yodobashi, it was in their inventory but they couldn't find it.

[Suica]

Was wondering why amiami didn't notify me about mine yet but then I remembered that I had a Tomytec bus on my order as well. Guess that'll be out later this month.

 

Also, about the Berlin tram.

Prototype is car 1036

If you want to make it look more prototypical I suggest you tint the windows (all but the three windows of the driver's cabin and the rear window). I guess it kinda helps hiding the motor unit as well. 

The question is HOW? Anyone got an idea? 

[bill937ca]

Awfully small to use a rattle can on the inside.  Maybe a second layer of glazing on the inside which has been tinted with a rattle can before being attached.

[railsquid]

And arrived:

 

Berliner Strassenbahn GT6N by Rail Squid, on Flickr

 

Happily I see it's one of my former local lines. Will pose in a more attractive location later.

[Suica]

55 minutes ago, bill937ca said:

Awfully small to use a rattle can on the inside.  Maybe a second layer of glazing on the inside which has been tinted with a rattle can before being attached.

Maybe some transparent black foil from the hobby shop.

[kvp]

8 hours ago, Suica said:

If you want to make it look more prototypical I suggest you tint the windows (all but the three windows of the driver's cabin and the rear window). I guess it kinda helps hiding the motor unit as well. 

The question is HOW? Anyone got an idea? 

Maybe dark self adhesive window foil? It's easily cuttable and sticks to glass and plastic well.

[HantuBlauLOL]

13 hours ago, Suica said:

Was wondering why amiami didn't notify me about mine yet but then I remembered that I had a Tomytec bus on my order as well. Guess that'll be out later this month.

 

Also, about the Berlin tram.

Prototype is car 1036

If you want to make it look more prototypical I suggest you tint the windows (all but the three windows of the driver's cabin and the rear window). I guess it kinda helps hiding the motor unit as well. 

The question is HOW? Anyone got an idea? 

 

sharpie? it's transparent afaik

 

or leftover window tints from nearby custom car shops

[Suica]

On 18.12.2017 at 1:40 AM, Suica said:

Prototype is car 1036

By the way, the car doesn't exist as this anymore. It's currently in the depot undergoing modernisation from GT6N to GTNO standard. Basically it'll receive a new computer system.

Its new number will be 1236 however the appearance won't change.

[bill937ca]

Three of my four orders have shipped.  I've got 2 Berlin bodies and 4 Munich bodies on order along with a second TM-LRT04 power chassis.  Hope to have those three orders by New Years.  Wonder if this will be followed up a second Euro offering in 2018?

Edited December 23, 2017 by bill937ca

[railsquid]

And here we go, quick mock-up pretending to be S-Bhf Hackescher Markt around say 1995, or possibly later if we pretend the S-Bahn is running in preservation.

 

Berliner Strassenbahn am Hackeschen Markt by Rail Squid, on Flickr

 

Purists will find many detail issues with the scene, but like I said it's a quick mock-up :)

[bill937ca]

A couple more views of Berlin GT6N. It has already shown up in Europe at DM Toys but at a hefty price.

 

 

 

[bill937ca]

On 12/17/2017 at 4:30 PM, kvp said:

The Tomix trams however use 2 axle limited rotation bogies, so the carbodys mostly rotate together with the axles. This results in the classic cobra movement shown on the last link. The real cars depend on the springs in the articulation to straighten. The Tomix mech depends on the center bogie being locked, so the rails would align the tram. This works as long as there is no side play between the wheels and the rails. Tomix's own tram track is slightly wider though, so the trams don't quite straighten out. I wonder if the european trams get a better mech or a better (spring assisted) shell. Please update us on the first test runs.

 

Based on early tests I'm not seeing any sign of the cobra movement coming out  of turns. You will see at 0:20 of this Munich GT6N video (which shows the GT6Ns as recently rebuilt mid-life). Video by M. H.

 

 

 

Today I was testing a Munich GT6N and a Berlin GT6N with TM-LRT04 power units on the big layout using remote control turnouts and a couple of stop blocks.

 

 

I am not having any problems with the bodies straightening out of curves, but you have to be very careful that all three sections of the body are all the way down onto the chassis and the wheels on the track.

Edited March 5, 2018 by bill937ca

[bill937ca]

Sitting on the big layout at one of my stop blocks.  

 

[kvp]

1 hour ago, bill937ca said:

Based on early tests I'm not seeing any sign of the cobra movement coming out  of turns. You will see at 0:20 of this Munich GT6N video.

 

At 11-13 seconds on your video, the front of the blue unit does a 1-2mm zigzag twice going out of the inner curve. The straightening depends on the lack of track gauge widening on the straight sections which the Tomix tracks have but the Katos don't. This on the other hand could lead to some large axle distance trams scratching the inner sides of the tracks.

[bill937ca]

4 hours ago, kvp said:

At 11-13 seconds on your video, the front of the blue unit does a 1-2mm zigzag twice going out of the inner curve. The straightening depends on the lack of track gauge widening on the straight sections which the Tomix tracks have but the Katos don't. This on the other hand could lead to some large axle distance trams scratching the inner sides of the tracks.

 

Isn't this very much like the early prototype low floor trams which suffered from derailments and excessive track wear going into and out of curves?

[bill937ca]

One issue with these Tomytec models. On both the Berlin tram and the Munich tram when removing the original chassis from the body, the windows of the center section (only) popped out.  It took a drop of glue to hold back in place.

[kvp]

35 minutes ago, bill937ca said:

Isn't this very much like the early prototype low floor trams which suffered from derailments and excessive track wear going into and out of curves?

This problem only happens with 2 axle short articulation trams of the cobra type and its derivatives like the combino supra. Essentially the trams depend on the flanges pushing the sprung articulation into position on the curves. These trams have two axles under all sections and minimal movement between the bogies and the main car body with only one degree of freedom on most articulation points. Japanese examples are the portram and the fukuram. The models cheat a bit and use one fixed bogie instead of springs to return the cars to straight.

 

The earliest 100% low floor trams, the Budapest underground 1896 stock had bogies in a well car arrangement (two motor bogies with the car hung beween them and only the driver sitting on the high floor area). This arrangement were modified with the inclusion of jackobs bogies into articulated designs and they are excellent runners with minimal track wear. (the modern flirt high speed commuter sets are of this late 19th century arrangement)

 

The more modern (between ww1 and ww2) design was using cheaper rigid two axle cars and suspending a section between them. Japanese exaples are the green mover (combino classic) and the piccola. These are good on the curves but tend to touch the ground on sudden slope transitions with the longer suspended section(s). This is the most used european low floor tram design due to being the cheapest with the most simple parts. Another drawback is the relatively high axle load (almost double of a cobra type and more than double of the jackobs type).

 

While technically the ancient well car/jackobs articulation is the best runner and best on the track, it costs the most to have a fully low floor arrangement, so mostly only used with higher speed sets with relatively longer cars or on lines where nothing else would work, like some Budapest and Prague routes.

 

ps: One little known type is the Vienna ULF which are single axle articulated cars with (talgo style) steerable front and rear axles. Works nicely but requires perfect and clean track to run. (you can derail it with some folded newspapers on the rails) This is a one of a kind arrangement not really seen anywhere else, but has the lowest floor in the world. A similar earlier concept was the single axle articulation of the Tokyu deha200 cars.

 

 

 

 

[bill937ca]

Photos I took this week of these cars on my tram layout.

[bill937ca]

Two more German trams of the same general type are being added for November release.

 

Nuremberg 1000 series  https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10548099

Mainz 200 series    https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10548103

 

[Suica]

The doors on the Nuremberg version are wrong. I hope they change that until the actual release.

[bill937ca]

It says the Mainz cars will be double ended and get new molds and have entrances and exits on both sides. Only one pantograph on the Mainz trams and the prototype.

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10548103

 

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by bill937ca

[bill937ca]

How are the doors wrong on the Nuremburg tram?

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10548099/30/1

 

http://www.nahverkehr-franken.de/strassenbahn/img_wagen/nbg_1002.jpg

[Suica]

1 hour ago, bill937ca said:

How are the doors wrong on the Nuremburg tram?

The doors in Tomytec's drawing are the same type as used on the Berlin and Munich trams, and thus their windows are too large. Your picture clearly shows that the windows actually do not reach all the way down.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Suica