Plaza Japan eBay "No Returns Accepted"

[bill937ca]

I noticed tonight that Plaza Japan has most of his auctions labeled as No Returns Accepted.  This seems to be something new.  All the Shinkansen train sets have this condition of sale.  The more expsensive the item the more likely it's no returns accepted.

 

I would not return anything to Japan unless it was defective,and I've never had to do that.  I wonder what's behind this. I've had one or two small items from Plaza that I felt weren't adequately packed for shipping and arrived semi-crushed so I've shied away from placing small orders with him.  Train sets have arrived OK and were well packed. Which makes wonder further if Plaza Japan could be the architect of their own misfortune with their customers to some degree.

 

The Tomix TCS power Unit has listed at $1,350 US is also marked No Returns Accepted.  Good luck selling that at that price with all sales final written all over it.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/TCS-Power-Sound-Unit-N-S2-CL-Tomix-5521_W0QQitemZ200369139592QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item2ea6ee6f88&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262

 

One thing I'm bad for is printing stuff off.  I've gone back and looked at items I bought from Plaza Japan and there was nothing like no returns accepted on any of those listings.

 

Inspite of the extra cost of EMS, anything ordered from Hobby Search has always arrived well packed in an excellent  box whether the order was big or small. Hobby Search says to contact them if you have a problem. 

[GrahamH]

I have always thought Plaza to be more expensive. When I first started buying Japanese around 5 years ago there was little choice of dealers. In the end I bought items at the same time from Hobby world and Rainbowten using SAL. The Rainbowten items arrived 10 days later and the hobby world arrived 5 weeks later. This was repeated with another order. Hobbysearch also didn't speak English.

My latest orderwas from HW and arrived in 10 days and was around 10 to 12 % cheaper than Rainbowten plus the points to be added for future purchases.

 

Because of the hit on the pound against sterling, I am trying to make up the 25% loss and using HW plus using Paypal (no 3 % surcharge for credit cards) is helping but I am still in the habit of divided by 200 then sighing and then dividing by 150. I rather like to see images of what is available. Having said that some of my Rainbowten items were very very cheap offers.

 

As regards returns I would expect them to replace faulty items.

 

I am begining to get obsessed with the words 'the pound is sliding against....'

 

 

Graham H

[Guest ___]

I've had similar grumblings about how Plaza ships and packs small items.

 

HobbySearch has interns on a six month rotation who do speak English. It kills me that I established a really good working relation with one of them, only for him to rotate out and a new person came in, and had to start over again. Now, she's gone and a new English relations person came in.

[bill937ca]

. In the end I bought items at the same time from Hobby world and Rainbowten using SAL. The Rainbowten items arrived 10 days later and the hobby world arrived 5 weeks later. This was repeated with another order.

 

 

 

Graham H

 

I've found Hobby World items to be slow getting out Shizuoka to the closest international airport.  Sometimes it took an EMS item a day or two to show up on tracking.

[lbriand_fr]

Did you ask Plaza why he refuse returns now?

Untill now, I have always received well packed items. But I always buy 4 or 5 items to reduce shipping cost.

[Bernard]

A while ago I order the wrong 800 Skinhansen from Plaza, it was the Tomix and I thought I ordered the Kato. Even though I hadn't opened the item, I found out then that there was a "no return policy". I did keep the Tomix and to my surprise it did convert to DCC with no problems.

[cteno4]

i dont see PlazaJapan operating any differently than other japanese hobby shops with this policy. the will replace any defective or broken equipment

 

what they do say though in their policies is:

 

Refund policy:

If you receive a defective or incorrect item, we will exchange for the same item at no extra charge. In such cases, we must receive a report from you via e-mail within 1 week from the delivery date.

 

which seems fair and what other japanese hobby shops provide.

 

HobbySearch does not allow any returns other than for a damage item either. I know as they are holding a hard line with me on my vacation hold maruka pre-order snafu. they will not take the set back and credit me for future purchase just the cost of the item (i eat the shipping). they will only let me pay for a second shipping or keep the whole returned order and all my my money. Im a bit disappointed as i am a long time customer and have dropped a lot of money with them as well as recommended them to a lot of folks. they are taking the hard line that they accept no returns other than for damaged goods.

 

I can understand plaza and other japanese hobby shops not wanting to do an return if the person ordered the wrong item or decide they just dont want it. the chances of something being damaged in two intentional shippings (then add a third when someone else buys it) just keeps going up and then they are in for a return to fix the broken unit.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[John P Boogerd]

I received my 2nd order from Plaza Japan just this week - the first was about nine months ago - and I am very pleased with the service - my shipments arrive quickly and are beautifully packed - and when Hobby Search is unable to provide a limited edition item (at least in my case) Plaza Japan had it for me.

[to2leo]

I think theres is a consumer cultural misunderstanding brewing here. 

 

In North America, we are 'spoiled' with refund policy while in other countries, there is no such thing.  This is especially true in Asian countries and some European countries where only exchange is the norm.

 

Before people will jump to conclusion, we North Americans must realize that our prices have included an extra fee for refunds.

 

My solution to this is to ask the seller to test the engine and open the box to inspect the merchandise before sending it to me.  It works wonders!

[Guest ___]

I think theres is a consumer cultural misunderstanding brewing here.  

 

In North America, we are 'spoiled' with refund policy while in other countries, there is no such thing.  This is especially true in Asian countries and some European countries where only exchange is the norm.

 

Before people will jump to conclusion, we North Americans must realize that our prices have included an extra fee for refunds.

 

My solution to this is to ask the seller to test the engine and open the box to inspect the merchandise before sending it to me.  It works wonders!

 

 

Funny,  I suggested that after my defective RealZJ engine issues only to get slammed on here and in the groups that it was a completely and totally ridiculous notion to expect someone who sells something abroad with high S&H rates, and limited refund policies, with no warranty dare ensure something is not defective before going out the door and flying half way around the planet.

 

I'm equally sure I'll take it up tail end for even posting this reply too.

[to2leo]

Hmm sometimes even with return policy and an oversea office (HORNBY's ARNOLD!) You will get no help at all.  A warning DO NOT BUY ARNOLD's ICE!

[cteno4]

well this brings up the other problem that japanese manufacturers dont warrantee products shipped outside japan. this puts another kink in the return chain for repairs and such i expect for the dealers in their thinking. it seems to work fine with defective stuff if the japanese dealer returns a defective part to the manufacturer, but then what happens if the manufacturer decides its not covered under warrantee.

 

i agree that if you buy something you should have the full expectation it will work or get your $ back. rub is with all these shipping costs (and potential for the unit to have gotten damaged in shipping if drop kicked) its hard to deal with that the same way a local retailer could/would. I realize that returns are not very practical for the japanese stuff. unless something comes that is totally bollixed i would not think of return and so far have not had anything arrive in a state where i would seriously consider a return.

 

I do agree we have a stronger return mentality here in n america than in a lot of the rest of the world, so it is hard to expect that when you buy from overseas where that is not the case. defective merchandize is an exception to this, but we must realize the risk that returning will require expensive shipping twice more and that may be too much to expect the seller to always eat when he is just the middle man. its tough, no easy solution. if they end up paying for a lot of return stuff the prices on our stuff will have to go up when they sell overseas or they also just wont do it (the reason many japanese stores apparently dont sell overseas in addition to having to have english/other speaking staff)

 

As i entered the hobby i discovered stuff was of great quality and pretty all much better than the us stuff i could get. As time went on i have had a few problems, but for the amount i have gotten this is a very small percentage and I have always been able to figure out a fix. I look at it the same as SAL self insurance in that i have to expect that a small percentage will break (defective or my fault or just probability) and so a small part of my overall hobby budget will go to replacing/fixing things. so far its worked out really well as few things have broken and those i have been able to repair. i know others dont have the same luck/experience, but thats mine with a few hundred trains so figure i have a pretty good sample size to think it should stay the same for me at least.

 

my 1.5 cents

 

cheers

 

jeff

 

btw a few years back my kato 800 stripped an axle like 4 months after i bought it from plaza. i emailed jun and he airmailed me new trucks/axles right away free of charge. this was great on his part, i think it cost him $10 on a $130 purchase, so ate into his margin quite a bit (more levels in the chain in japan so lower margins), but he got a happy customer and the problem was taken care of cheap and fast (little airmail envelopes show up in like 3 days! for like $2.50!)

[GrahamH]

hi all

Plaza has 5 neutral feedbacks from a total of 9148 in the last 12 months. There are no negatives. Plaza are also a power seller and will want to keep that status. I wouldn't worry too much about dealing with them, they must dread the possibility of bad feedback . Refusing returns may end up with this, but really once an item is sold, unless there is a fault, that's it. Afterall when the item is returned it is now secondhand/pre-owned

I can remember when they first started and had very few sales-small beginnings indeed. But I have never used them. Good to look at what is available.

 

Graham H

[alpineaustralia]

The tomytec protram is now available on ebay at PlazaJapan:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360184505081&category=19127&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:US:SHOWI&emailtemplateid=15726191&sellerid=eJGfcJBwsRLS6YQxP9dgFw==&buyerid=eJGfcJBwsRLN/AQX8OTvQg==&refid=store

[Guest ___]

I'm amazed with the motorized chassis that it's that much. Still half the cost of the KATO, but still.

[to2leo]

I'm amazed with the motorized chassis that it's that much. Still half the cost of the KATO, but still.

 

I love Plaza Japan but he got to make a living.  I find that a number of his product prizes are reaching Kato's MSP, sometimes more.

 

In return, you are buying from someone who many of us can trust.

 

As for me, I have not bought from him for a while.

[Guest ___]

Jun's markup is not that significant compared to HS or HW, I'm just amazed that the TOMIX cost is as high for the chassis compared to the other power chassis for the other Tomytec railway collections.

[cteno4]

I think the mechanism is expensive as its articulated and thus probably a lot more difficult to produce. it was a long time to get the design right and they apparently went back to the drawing board at least once on it. From what doug said katos has been in development the last 2 or 3 years. the other tomytec mechs are pretty simple.

 

the portrams worked out $40 each sal shipped (shell and mech) from preorder at hw! so i think thats a great price for an articulated tram of ok detail. you pay more like $80-100 for a higher detail articulated modemo or the new kato.

 

most of the other tomytec trams i have have worked out close to $40 for all the parts once completed.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[alpineaustralia]

In a word- I think we would all agree that Plaza Japan is reliable but he's not cheap

[John P Boogerd]

I have bought from both Hobby Search and Plaza Japan for N scale items previously - now I am going into Japanese HO and will order from both as I have always been pleased with their service - I'll be listing the N scale items, all new in the box, for sale.

[The_Ghan]

In a word- I think we would all agree that Plaza Japan is reliable but he's not cheap

 

Really?  I've found him cheaper since HS moved back to 15% discounts.  Plaza is still running at 20% for most things.  I also find his shipping prices are very competitive and cheaper than HS.  The only two people I know who are SOMETIMES cheaper than Plaza are Rainbow and Banzai Hobby.  However, most of the items on the newly returned HS Bargain page are cheap.

 

In the last year I've ordered from Plaza about 5 times.  Everything arrives as quickly as HS items and equally well packed.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[westfalen]

I always check Plaza and HS to see who has the best price but Plaza often doesn't get some of the more out of the ordinary products.

[The_Ghan]

I always check Plaza and HS to see who has the best price but Plaza often doesn't get some of the more out of the ordinary products.

 

I agree, Plaza has a small range in comparison to HS.  However, twice I've ordered track from him that was not in stock, simply by sending him a PM through eBay.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[cteno4]

traditionally plazajapan was like 5-10% off list, pretty much what the old discount use to be before HS, HW, R10 went to the discount wars of 20% off list. the big difference is that plazajapan posts his auctions in dollars and really does not change them for quite a while when the exchange rates change. lately as the yen keeps marching up his prices have fallen below HS and he may be discounting more now.

 

his shipping though is almost always higher than HS small items he usually starts at $6.80 to ship whereas its $5 at HS. also notice that he does not discount shipping as much as HS as you add items. he may use a shipping agent or something that adds to the shipping price.

 

even with the difference in shipping i have found things like tomytec car sets are usually a bit cheaper form jun than from HS.

 

i must say that his shipping boxes/packing are not as sturdy as HS. in my experience over they years he has gotten cheaper with his boxes and packaging. ive had some more recent packages show up pretty bunged up, but luckily nothing broken for me. i had one etched metal part he shipped in an envelope with no stiffening cardboard in it. it got curled pretty well, but luckily not kinked so i was able to get it flattened out again, but could easily have been ruined. i paid like $6 to ship the item and it was a $1 airmail so it could have easily (and should have) had been wrapped in a couple of chunks of cardboard to keep it from getting curled.

 

I have to give Jun a big thumbs up a few years back when i ordered my kato 800 from him. after about 15 minutes of running it stripped a drive shaft. he shipped a pair of kato trucks/drive shafts that arrived airmail in about 5 days free to fix it.

 

Plazajapan has also been great as a starting point for folks here in the US to get into japanese trains as they are usually uncomfortable ordering from overseas, but since its an ebay store they feel like its protected some. he gets great kudos on the US train lists when folks need some thing japanese!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[linkey]

I've only had one problem with Plaza Japan and that was an order that didn't arrive at all, which we manage to sort it out but the item never got to my place. But every other order that I went through Plaza Japan had been received and with no problems at all. I would say that they had been getting a few people trying to return items saying that it is broken before they receiving them. With the packing done by Plaza Japan is similar to other internet Hobby Shops, I wouldn't say that Plaza Japan doesn't look after the item but it could be the shipping and postage (after customs to the postal service) things can go wrong.

 

I am happy to still buy from Plaza Japan and I have been giving good feedback to Plaza Japan on eBay.