Minimum radius for Kato 10-864 Tokyo Ginza Line subway

[velotrain]

I realize that contemporary subway lines generally don't have curves as tight as the Chicago elevated - for example.

 

However, I've been wondering if this - or comparable sets, could be used for a small, tight, urban subway layout?

[kvp]

I've tested and while 140mm is a bit too tight for this set, but 177mm works fine. However the Tomytec train collection subway cars are ok with 140mm curves and points.

 

In reality these shorter cars are used on relatively tight curves, but scaled down 280mm would be more prototypical.

[velotrain]

Thanks much kvp - I'm not sure how much elevated track I want to build (or buy and build - if using the ITLA kits), so I was thinking of having a station in front, and then curve the track behind the skyboard to reduce the area I'd have to scenic - perhaps even using a pseudo T-Trak framework.  The fellow at T-Kits told me he now offers an unlisted 4-wide module, which could be a decent base for a small layout.

 

Another possibility would be to have elevated on one side, and then subway on the other, without the track elevation changing.  Only the (implied) street level would change, and the end transfer curves would be covered.  No doubt the elevation transition track could be visually interesting, but it would require way too much space to go from say -3" to +3", and then back again.  

 

Hmmm . . . . unless the "subway" entrance was something like this:

 

https://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/lark45099717l/GALLERY/show_image_v2.html?id=https%3A%2F%2Fblog-001.west.edge.storage-yahoo.jp%2Fres%2Fblog-0d-31%2Flark45099717l%2Ffolder%2F879743%2F64%2F31362864%2Fimg_1%3F1356392245

 

BTW - I came across a video of the ITLA display layout at the Amherst show a bunch of years ago.  Apparently they previously offered many more component kits in more scales, but there just wasn't sufficient interest to justify such a wide range.  That thing must have been a bear to transport without doing damage to it ;-)

 

 

OTOH - I just ordered a MTH HO NYC subway set . . . .

[kvp]

Hmmm . . . . unless the "subway" entrance was something like this

Actually the other side of that elevated section disappears between two highrise buildings right into a steep hillside. The station on the picture was on the 3rd level of the shopping center. If you want to build something like this, but have a visible station in the middle, you might try putting the tunnel enterances between two high buildings on both sides.

 

An alternative is something like Yokosukachuo on the Keikyu mainline, where the elevated station is literally located between two tunnels on two near vertical cliff sides.

[Kiha66]

Although not as realistic, something like where the subway crosses the Kanda river at Ochanomizu Station could be neat to model, and lets you display some surface trains on the platforms running across the scene.  Moving the level of the ground instead of the level of the tracks seems like the way to go to get both elevated and subway in a small space. 
http://www.kanda-gawa.com/guide/img_c1/sp2_07.jpg

[velotrain]

Actually the other side of that elevated section disappears between two highrise buildings right into a steep hillside. The station on the picture was on the 3rd level of the shopping center. If you want to build something like this, but have a visible station in the middle, you might try putting the tunnel enterances between two high buildings on both sides.

 

An alternative is something like Yokosukachuo on the Keikyu mainline, where the elevated station is literally located between two tunnels on two near vertical cliff sides.

yokosukachuo.jpg

 

Yes, I think I've seen a photo of that station, and several images of Japanese subways disappearing into/between buildings.  What I "might" want to build is a large module / very small layout featuring an elevated subway line, using NYC/Chicago style components.  It is this sort of structure that is the main interest for me here. 

 

I see the main advantage of modeling a US-style elevated subway line as allowing very sharp, but prototypical, curves - allowing a loop in a very small space.

 

I've thought about a straight set-up, with reversing at the ends, but the problem there is that you'd have trains running in both directions on both tracks - unless you had some sort of single track, single train shuttle service over a short distance.  There are possible solutions, but they involve electronics - at the simple end the 5563 mode #1 would work, and additional length for a wye turnout and reversing track at each end. 

 

Actually, this would be an ideal situation for the concept of the subway line disappearing at each end, to hide the turnout and the train reversing to return on the other track.  I have considered this with T-Trak modules, but think you'd need at least three triple (3') modules at a minimum to pull it off - even using three car trains, which is why I'm considering a small loop, with TCS controlling stops at the station each time around.

 

For a much more compact station between tunnels, there's the hokuhoku line in Niigata:

 

http://dasman.up.n.seesaa.net/dasman/image/IMG__3015.jpg?d=a0

 

Visually interesting, but not much operational potential.

 

Kiha - I know that location and it's been discussed quite a bit on the forum, and there have been varying attempts to model it - some more successful than others. 

It is appealing, but as mentioned above it isn't what I'm after.