Starting out in Japanese N Gauge- a few questions

[trainhoarder]

Hi,

I am a UK-based modeller who has been modelling British outline 00 for quite a while, but now I'd like to try something different. Ever since I was young I have been fascinated with the Japanese Shinkansen network and it's trains, primarily through a childhood encounter with the one in the York NRM shortly after it arrived. I have ordered some Kato unitrack (enough to make a basic layout) but I have a few questions:

1. Can I use a standard Bachmann 16v controller with Japanese N Gauge? Kato ones are nice, but expensive, and as I have a few Bachmann ones lying about I'd rather use one of them than spend £50 on a new one.

2. My second question, what is the best source for a model of a Series 0 Shinkansen in the UK? None seem to be in stock with UK distributors at the moment, so I'll have to order from abroad. I see there is a Tomix one for £75 from the Plaza Japan eBay store, and a 2nd hand Kato one for £140 (which is 8 cars long), and also another Tomix one on a site called Model Trains Plus. Is there anything I should know re shipping to the UK? I see there is a fairly high shipping few on most items from Japan (usually around £26) but others have surprisingly cheap shopping costs. Would I have to pay import duty or similar? Would it be cheaper and easier to wait until one comes up on a UK site?

[Wonderbolt]

Hey.

Your bachmann controller should be fine, but if you get unitrack you will have to mod it a little to plug it in.

 

I would bite the bullet and order from Japan, you can order from shops like locohobby1, model train plus and hobbysearch ect and pay postage, some times you can get stuff from Amazon posted from Japan with free postage. Customs charges are seemingly potluck but I've only had to pay them once.

UK sellers charge well over the odds for both new and preowned.

[trainhoarder]

My understanding is that a £75 Shinkansen would escape customs charges as it is under £135. So that's £75+£15 VAT+£25 postage.

HOWEVER, I've noticed that hobbysearch has the same set at the same price but offers small package posting so I'd only have to pay around £7 on top of VAT. Is this reliable?

[cteno4]

SAL usually takes 2-3 weeks to most places. It has no tracking or insurance. You can do registered sal that adds tracking and a small bit of insurance for 400yen with most Japanese shops now. Here in the us I've had hundreds of sal boxes over the last 18 years and never had one go poof or destroyed. But it's best to get feedback from folks there in England to see how well it works there. It is a big savings over ems but you have to be patient for your trains! I've saves thousands of dollars over the years using sal primarily so I'm super well self insured if I ever do have a package lost eventually. After about 6-8 successful sal parcels you are pretty well self insured.

 

Shops mentioned are great and you can find more comments on them in the supplier forum. They have excellent service and English speaking staff. All now use paypal for easy and secure credit card purchases (don't have to have a paypal account to checkout thru paypal to pay for the order with a cc).

 

Jeff

[trainhoarder]

I think the best deal is Hobbysearch Japan... £75+ about a tenner for Registered SAL. I dare not risk unregistered SAL. Not sure about VAT, I have read some people actually get away with not paying it?

 

Oh, and the Bachmann controller I have has a 16v input. Does this make a difference as Japanese trains are (I think) 12v?

[trainhoarder]

Sorry for the double post but I believe EMS is intercepted by Parcel Force in England who slap ridiculous "handling charges" on anything from outside the EU and are very zealous about any customs duty.

[cteno4]

yeah i think thats what other folks in england have said, but im sure a few will pipe in here.

 

the bachmann transformer will work but you just dont want to run it over about 2/3rds as most n scale trains max at 12v. most will start to fly off the tracks if you get close to that. but longer trains with only a single power unit can stay on the track fast at 12v and then if you push it higher it will burn them out. this is why its usually safest to use a 12v max output throttle with most all n scale dc trains.

 

if you do use it you might look at a little simple voltage meter to add to the transformer (just put it across your track leads) and it will show you the voltage going to the track. these digital start at 2.4v (you dont see 0-2.4v as they need that much voltage before its enough to run the little circuit).

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Quality-DC-2-4-30V-2-Wire-LED-Display-3-Digital-Voltage-Voltmeter-Panel-/112433942229?var=&hash=item1a2d95ced5:m:mkfwB7UuEvSttFXluLiKp7w

 

there are others that can take 4-30v input to power the meter but it has to use a common ground. this should work on a bachmann power supply if it has a 12v or 18v dc output. just not sure they have a common ground in them between the fixed and variable outputs. this can usually be seen if you pop it open and trace the grounds on each.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Wonderbolt]

Its always a risk on customs, the only time I have been charged for them is for a less than £20 order from hobby search, for other orders over £100 its got straight through.

I have had items lost in transit from Japan but got a refund as it was Amazon marketplace.

It sometimes pays off the pay that little more for tracked and insured SAL, also delivery times can differ between a week and a month.

[katoftw]

Oh, and the Bachmann controller I have has a 16v input. Does this make a difference as Japanese trains are (I think) 12v?

Doesn't matter about the input.  The output is what is important.  Kato output it 15V, input it 18V i think.  So you 16V input controller should be fine.

 

Even so, those voltages are up near full speed, And you'll rarely need to go past half throttle or 7-8 volts.

[Yavianice]

Doesn't matter about the input.  The output is what is important.  Kato output it 15V, input it 18V i think.  So you 16V input controller should be fine.

 

Even so, those voltages are up near full speed, And you'll rarely need to go past half throttle or 7-8 volts.

Actually, KATO Power Packs have 15V 1.5A input and 12V output. Cteno4 is correct, as far as I know, 12V is the recommended maximum Voltage for both Japanese and European trains.

[katoftw]

Thanks for the correction.  Sounds like a 16V input with unknown but close to 12V output controller then should be fine.

[kvp]

 

 

Actually, KATO Power Packs have 15V 1.5A input and 12V output. 

The 12V output mark is at the start of the red line on the controller as they are combo N/HO controllers that can go a bit higher than 12V. Most Kato trains tolerate flying up to 14V or even 16V for a short time, but longer runs and the motors will get damaged. Tomix and especially Tomytec trains on the other hand don't tolerate anyting above 12V. (some small trams will fly off the tracks at 9V or even lower voltages)

 

For any classic smooth analog power pack, you can take a multimeter and measure the 12V DC position on the throttle and never go above that (just mark it). It gets trickier with unsmoothed (pulsed) power packs, but measuring in AC mode will work. PWM power packs however always output the full voltage, so it's a must to have 12V max. on the output. You can actually measure this with a multimeter if you crank the pack up to 100% to have a smooth DC voltage and this must be at or below 12V measured in DC mode.

 

One more thing to look for is the current limit. Most N scale trains could not tolerate the full 5A of some power packs, so having a current limited power pack around 1A is always a good idea. Tomix packs have peak current limits between 0.7A and 1.2A. The Kato pack has a similar value, but 1.5A is used because of the larger H0 trains. Even a 2A power pack is enough to melt an N scale train during a derailment short, even way below full speed, so either the power pack needs a limiter or a resettable fuse needs to be installed on the output of the controller. (both Kato and Tomix packs have this built in)

[trainhoarder]

I was wrong- Bachmann controllers are 16v input and 12v output; or at least that's what I can gather from internet research. I wouldn't be running at full speed anyway. Looks like HobbySearch for me although I'm going to wait until all my track has arrived and I have a little extra cash lying around...these early Shinkansens are a bit thin on the ground aren't they?

[Yavianice]

The 12V output mark is at the start of the red line on the controller as they are combo N/HO controllers that can go a bit higher than 12V. Most Kato trains tolerate flying up to 14V or even 16V for a short time, but longer runs and the motors will get damaged. Tomix and especially Tomytec trains on the other hand don't tolerate anyting above 12V. (some small trams will fly off the tracks at 9V or even lower voltages)

Interesting, I never knew that. I always thought that the maximum output was 12V, as it is labeled that way on the power pack itself. Kind of weird too, as my PIKO locomotive from last year hardly moves unless at maximum power (especially when up a 2% slope with a few wagons), and it is labeled as 12V max.

[kvp]

Interesting, I never knew that. I always thought that the maximum output was 12V, as it is labeled that way on the power pack itself. Kind of weird too, as my PIKO locomotive from last year hardly moves unless at maximum power (especially when up a 2% slope with a few wagons), and it is labeled as 12V max.

Actually it depends on the power brick it is used with. Some european sellers tend to replace the original 100V AC in pack with a 240VAC in 12V DC out pack. That actually means the controller output will be less than 12V (around 12-0.6*2=10.8V). Some packs are 14V DC creating a maximal output around 12.8V.

[Yavianice]

Actually it depends on the power brick it is used with. Some european sellers tend to replace the original 100V AC in pack with a 240VAC in 12V DC out pack.

Yes, I had a big argument with the European importer about this. Since this year, they now deliver a 240V AC brick with the same output voltage as the Japanese power brick: 15V 1.5A

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[railsquid]

I was wrong- Bachmann controllers are 16v input and 12v output; or at least that's what I can gather from internet research. I wouldn't be running at full speed anyway. Looks like HobbySearch for me although I'm going to wait until all my track has arrived and I have a little extra cash lying around...these early Shinkansens are a bit thin on the ground aren't they?

 

Are the Bachmann controllers those grey square ones with the blue knob with the Bachmann "B" on it? If so they work fine, haven't measured the output but seems to be about the same as the Tomix ones.