Indonesia to restrict second-hand Japanese trains?

[bikkuri bahn]

JAKARTA — Moves to restrict imports of used Japanese train cars have surfaced in Indonesia, where Japan-built rolling stock is a mainstay of rail lines.

The Indonesian government began discussing restricting imports in response to calls for putting higher priority on domestic train cars.

If other countries begin to take similar action, Japan may lose destinations for used train cars, prompting concern among relevant officials.

More than 90%

In the Jakarta metropolitan area, train cars once used on the JR Saikyo Line and Tokyu Denentoshi Line can be seen running on rail lines. PT KAI Commuter Jabodetabek, which operates rail services in the area, has imported retired train cars from East Japan Railway Co., Tokyo Metro Co., Tokyu Corp., and other companies. Of the about 860 train cars the Indonesian railway company owns, used Japanese train cars account for more than 90 percent.

 

more:

http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0003772392

[Davo Dentetsu]

So now the obvious question.  What's the quality of a second-hand Japanese train compared to a new Indonesian train?

[Wonderbolt]

Do Indonesia even have a domestic train production industry? That said good on them for giving it a go, wish we would do the same in the UK.

[katoftw]

Considerations and discussions.  Sounds more like an bluff you keep the next purchases of used Japanese trains at a cheaper price.

[Davo Dentetsu]

Do Indonesia even have a domestic train production industry? That said good on them for giving it a go, wish we would do the same in the UK.

They do, they just received an order from Bangladesh for a number of new coaches.  And the UK has Bombardier and Hitachi facilities to build, plus numerous refurb companies.  Sure, not domestic companies, but UK built nevertheless.

[kvp]

The government might have a problem with newer units arriving in a hard to maintain state. This means they are higher tech, so much harder to keep running without expensive facilities and are also lower lifespan units, so you can get less runtime out of them before scrapping. If they are getting the cars free of charge this is more or less acceptable (considering if there are no strict rules for environmentally safe scrapping), but there is a point where it's not worth it anymore to get 2nd hand units that can only run a short time before they have to be retired. Japan might just run out of cheap, easy to mainain cars that are worth selling as 2nd hand thanks to the modern design rules that carefully plan the lifetime of a train to the needs of the original buyer and thanks to the fact that old JNR era cars are getting too old and are often used in Japan as long as possible. On the other hand, as long as the used japanese trains are still better than new locally built ones, there will be a market, but japanese companies might have to sell shorter lifespan, locally unmaintenable cars much cheaper to offset the higher number of purchases required to keep the various indonesian systems running.

 

Of course this is just my oppinion and i might be completly wrong...

[bikkuri bahn]

The network in Jakarta pretty much owes its current state to Japanese ODA that began in the 1980's, which resulted in 150km of lines being added. After the 1997 Asian financial crisis, there was no money for purchasing new rolling stock, so Japan stepped in again and had Indonesian staff sent to Japan to undergo maintenance training, and retired Toei staff were sent to Jakarta to oversee the conversion of the maintenance regimen from "repair when broken" to "preventative maintenance". Once this was set up, the second-hand rolling stock was sent, setting up the pipeline that continues today.

[Wonderbolt]

They do, they just received an order from Bangladesh for a number of new coaches.  And the UK has Bombardier and Hitachi facilities to build, plus numerous refurb companies.  Sure, not domestic companies, but UK built nevertheless.

Interesting, working up to full units seems a natural progression.

Hmmm I don't really count Bombardier and Hitachi as they are non UK owned and are there more for political reasons, often only doing final assembly of prefabricated parts. Most of the smaller companies like Brush are non UK owned to.

[Socimi]

Do Indonesia even have a domestic train production industry? That said good on them for giving it a go, wish we would do the same in the UK.

They do, they just received an order from Bangladesh for a number of new coaches. And the UK has Bombardier and Hitachi facilities to build, plus numerous refurb companies. Sure, not domestic companies, but UK built nevertheless.

It's called INKA, short for "Industri Kereta Api", wich literally means "train factory" (such creativity!)

 

They are alredy making EMU for Jakarta commuter services:

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--kxJ0dsUPTE/UmSb1onVuFI/AAAAAAAAAIQ/O1l-8S3CDbM/s1600/558034_483001651761785_1800919184_n.jpg

 

It's called KRL INKA (literally means INKA EMU)

 

But one of their most famous products is indonesia's most modern diesel locomotive, the CC300:

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7064/13847928033_5281340418_b.jpg

 

Also, you might have guessed it by now, but one of the distinctive fetaures of INKA's product is the "Light overkill" (12 headlights, of wich 4 are the one who lit the tracks).

 

Then a small tought about this article.

 

I generally support countries that still have a national rolling stock industry, producing their own trains (even if in the case of indonesia, and i don't want to be offensive, but the right word to define that things is "Crap"), since i am from a country that had a great railway industry tradition (AnsaldoBreda, Fiat Ferroviaria, Socimi, Firema...) that our govenment sold to foreigin multi-nationals, for instance AnsaldoBreda was sold to Hitachi, and i have nothing wrong with it, besides the Leonardo of ATM and the Caravaggio for FS, but we sold Firema (the one that made Manchester T68 trams) to INDIA.

So if indonesians want to make their own rolling stock, then go for it!

 

On the other hand, i'm a bit sorry for the former JR East and Tokyo Metro rolling stock, because instead of having a nice second-life in indonesia, they will just be scrapped.

 

Oh.

 

I forgot.

 

There are also Myanmar and Philippines that use former Japanese trains (no electrics at the moment, but maybe in the future...)

 

And third-sector railways back in Japan....

 

Now, a question:

 

Given this statement, is indonesia still going to use J-TREC EMUs for the in-progress Jakarta MRT, or they will ask INKA to build them. They haven't experience with subway trains but they know how to build commuter EMUs, wich may make up the gap.

Edited July 14, 2017 by cteno4

[westfalen]

If Indonesia don't want second hand Japanese trains we'll take some, they can't be much worse than our brand new Indian built ones.  :disgust: 

[marknewton]

Why aren't these diesels prominently featured in the ugly trains thread?

 

Mark.

[HantuBlauLOL]

Do Indonesia even have a domestic train production industry? That said good on them for giving it a go, wish we would do the same in the UK.

Yes, INKA. but they can't supply enough, that's why KCJ choosed to import trainsets instead. Their production capacity for multiple units are still limited. They mainly produce coaches.

 

I don't think KCJ could survive without importing sets for now..

 

Coach example

http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/16583272_914569728685548_3478807094671441920_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTQ0NDg5MDAyNzA2MTg2MTc0NQ%3D%3D.2

 

For now, they are making Soekarno Hatta airport trainsets.

 

http://www.bumntoday.com/file/content/2017/03/170313035800_bumntoday.jpg

 

The real one looks bit different tho. I've seen one, but not revealed to public yet. Sorry can't post the pics here.

 

Their latest mass produced EMU is i9000 type. KRL-I was just a prototype, only 2 sets produced. All scrapped by now.

 

i9000

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hPj4WE6BI0I/U-AosixgFgI/AAAAAAAAAHY/smnjMhKLKpw/s1600/IMG_0049.JPG

 

KRL-I

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5008/5209147991_4690d0d1a2_b.jpg

 

They also produced some DMU called KRD-I. Available in 3 doors non AC sets and 2 doors AC sets

 

3 doors

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2711/4199495089_7125e99422_b.jpg

 

2 doors

https://css.trainspo.com/uploads/photos/1024/bagasalqadri-133837798185.jpg

 

CC300 fleets are just for spares. They are not owned by KAI (state railway) either.

 

 

Btw, Nippon Sharyo will build the MRTJ sets, and Woojin will do the LRTJ sets. There are also LRT for Palembang, will be built by INKA.

Edited July 22, 2017 by HantuBlauLOL

[railsquid]

2 doors

https://css.trainspo.com/uploads/photos/1024/bagasalqadri-133837798185.jpg

Looks like the body design was inspired by an old Kato Kiha 20 and the front design bought off trendyledinfestedtrainfrontends.com (with the extra LED frontlight option checked).

[Gryphr]

Looks like the body design was inspired by an old Kato Kiha 20 and the front design bought off trendyledinfestedtrainfrontends.com (with the extra LED frontlight option checked).

People will still say they didn't see it coming, even if it looks like a christmas tree ^^

 

I wonder how long it takes until one company takes the copying part too serious and makes a train with real life Rapido couplers :D

[Davo Dentetsu]

People will still say they didn't see it coming, even if it looks like a christmas tree ^^

 

I wonder how long it takes until one company takes the copying part too serious and makes a train with real life Rapido couplers :D

Now that you mention... how hasn't that become a thing?  A large Rapido would surely be a fantastic thing to have, maybe more for heavy duty freights.  :P

[HantuBlauLOL]

Looks like the body design was inspired by an old Kato Kiha 20 and the front design bought off trendyledinfestedtrainfrontends.com (with the extra LED frontlight option checked).

 

 

Can't unseen what already seen lmao

 

I believe the side was derrived from their older coaches.. their front end designs were always hillarious anyway. Btw no LEDs there to cut cost haha

 

People will still say they didn't see it coming, even if it looks like a christmas tree ^^

 

I wonder how long it takes until one company takes the copying part too serious and makes a train with real life Rapido couplers :D

That would be awesome. No need to replace its smaller sibling with TN couplers