Tomix New Operation Control System (TNOS)

[Yavianice]

On 7/20/2018 at 9:16 AM, kvp said:

So pretty much no programming API. That's something i don't really like. It would be very easy to provide a proper way to write programs (custom layouts) for the system. With this limitation, it's only possible to modify the existing trackplans, but no way to set up a custom one. Imho as long as Tomix doesn't open up the programming API, many people who could really use it won't buy it. The possibility is there as it only needs a firmware update to allow custom track layouts to be added to the SD card.

 

The parts are a different question, i do plan to get the new signals and i have a few sensors, but i'll just use something more open source, like a cheap arduino to wire them up.

 

Maybe Tomix didn’t bother making an API if they aren’t sure TNOS will be a success. When more people buy it, I’m sure demand for more custom layouts will increase, and maybe they will make one.

 

Im looking forward what the response of KATO will be. Will they make something equivalent, like how they now adopted PWM controllers, and a Bluetooth controller? Who knows. To me this is the most exciting, to be honest

[katoftw]

I'd be doubtful if Kato do something any time soon in regards to automation.  They never had any equivalent product similar to the previous Tomix automation systems.  And Tomix have had wireless controllers and PWN controllers for 10 plus years now.  So if their is a response from Kato, don't expect it any time near.

[kvp]

13 hours ago, katoftw said:

I'd be doubtful if Kato do something any time soon in regards to automation.  They never had any equivalent product similar to the previous Tomix automation systems.  And Tomix have had wireless controllers and PWN controllers for 10 plus years now.  So if their is a response from Kato, don't expect it any time near.

I actually expect more DCC compatible products from Kato. They are much better at it and DCC allows all automation and even more that Tomix is doing by using 3rd party parts and free software at a slightly higher price and more complexity. Those accessories are not available from one single vendor, but considering Kato doesn't even make a 3 way turnout or a double slip, i won't be surprised if Kato doesn't try to copy everything Tomix does. They usually try something totally different and try to be good at that.

Edited October 8, 2018 by kvp

[VentureForth]

Tomix has done an incredible job retaining backwards compatibility, improving automation without DCC.  Amazing!

[kvp]

Some info i found about the new Tomix TNOS signals:

https://twitter.com/hobbysearch_mt/status/994506849427668992

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S_RnH1_l7A

It looks like there is an upward facing IR sensor in each signal and the strange structures on the photos are meant to prevent errornous detection. While innovative and spares adding extra train sensors, i don't really think this would be too reliable in an exhibition environment or with signals placed next to each other. (also i really hope that Tomix keeps the old wheel sensors as they work nicely and are really simple to use)

 

[Yavianice]

@kvp Talking about the programming API,

 

Today with @defor I discovered a short section in the manual of the most recent update of the TNOS SD card describing how you can configure your own layouts (TCL TNOS command language).

 

https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/necst/5701tnos/images/update/tnosupdatamanual.pdf

 

Bottom page

 

Seems like you can pretty easily make your own configurations of layouts using a normal text editor. 

 

Just stick the SD card that is provided with the TNOS box in a PC or Mac, make a new folder, and place a new text file within it, write the commands in order (and taking a peek at the existing layouts, using the text editor, all lines also have comments which is really helpful), stick the SD card back in the TNOS box, off you go.

 

The update files for the SD card can be found here (the first link is an executable, but the second link (not the PDF one) is just a zipped file with all the folders and text files).

 

https://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/necst/5701tnos/tnos-update.html

 

Strange they didn't make a bigger deal out of this. TNOS suddenly became a HECK of a lot more attractive for me.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Yavianice

[defor]

The way i'm reading it, the custom programming is available only AFTER you run the February 2019 update, but that said, I think I'm going to invest in TNOS shortly and see if I can automate my rural single track layout with some level of complexity.

[katoftw]

Correct. Inital release didnt have the feature. The later update allowed you to design your own. Japanese language only though.

[defor]

looks simple enough- ran the pdf through machine translation, as well as the example txt scripts and they translate out pretty well...enough to figure out how it all works...
example: http://shorturl.at/kmAG4

 

Would probably be worth writing up a proper guide though...

[Yavianice]

Also, this user has modified some KATO unitrack with brass plates and Tomix sensors so KATO Unitrack users can also use TNOS.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Yavianice

[brill27mcb]

Thanks for posting this! I'll be studying it...

 

How do you run a pdf file through a translator?

 

Rich K.

 

ps: They have been awfully quiet about the planned TNOS-compatible signals, announced about one year ago.

Edited October 31, 2019 by brill27mcb

[Yavianice]

There is a new TNOS update (March 2020) which allows for double track operation. Update notes here

 

Second, I have purchased it and tinkered around with it a bit and it's pretty interesting.

 

My tumble down the TNOS rabbit hole can be found in the dedicated thread, here

Edited March 8, 2020 by Yavianice

[brill27mcb]

I consider this thread to be the "mother thread" for Tomix TNOS, so I'm posting some news here.

 

Today I updated my Tomix TNOS resource webpage on trainweb.org/tomix.

 

I added more links, including to Tomix's TNOS SD Memory Card update webpage. By the way, there is an even newer update, dated 2020-04-30 but referred to as 202005, adding Layout Plan 14 and an update to Version 1.05. I read Yavianice's step-by-step description of the updating process on this forum and worked up the nerve to do it. It went fine, and I've gone from my original 1.01 to 1.05 now.

 

I also added some documents of mine. One is new, a collection of notes in English about the TNOS SD memory card, which I pulled together as a result of the above updating. We can keep working together, finding out and documenting new things about how the system works. The other is a TNOS keypad "cheat sheet" in English that I wrote and use to help me remember what all the buttons on the control unit do.

 

I added embedded video links to 4 of sandiway's documentary TNOS videos on Youtube. I added a link to the JNS Forum here as a TNOS resource, since there seem to be at least four of us here (Yavianice, sandiway, MtlHobby, and me) actively playing with and discussing the TNOS system. I do really miss kvp's participation...

 

Information in English about TNOS is really hard to find anywhere. Does anyone on here who can read Japanese know if there are useful discussions on any Japanese online groups?

 

Rich K.

[brill27mcb]

Here's a track plan (drawn with AnyRail) for my present Tomix TNOS operated layout. It doesn't look like it, but it's actually the simple oval (TNOS Layout plan 8). As I wrote in another topic, you can squash and bend TNOS layout plans, as long as you do not change the logical sequence of the block sections.

 

 

This a a tram/trolley line, using Tomix Wide Tram street track and Mini curves. It is designed for right-side operation. I am up to version 4 of this plan because, after first running it, I have worked on trying to get the sensors well-placed and about equally spaced all the way around the layout, to have the smoothest flowing operation. The sensors are generally placed across from each other and become the model "trolley stops" along the street, plus a stop in each loop. Four trams or trolleys parade around the layout's 8 block sections (color-coded in the drawing) automatically and collision-free. I use the TNOS customizable Operating Parameter Sets to successfully run various brands of model trolleys, with normally incompatible speed characteristics, together smoothly. The layout is also designed to fit on a typical table size (30 x 72 inches) provided to you when you display at a railway show or "meet" here in the U.S.

 

I usually have a yard, with a two-track "carbarn" (the Tomix engine house) and two outside storage tracks, inside the larger loop, but I removed it  because 2-axle trams tend to stall on the Mini Points track switches at reasonable operating speeds. I can switch cars into and out of the yard manually, using a normal DC power pack cabled to the yard and throwing the "fully selective" Mini-Points to keep the yard operation electrically isolated from the TNOS power.

 

Rich K.

[brill27mcb]

Here are some photos of my present TNOS Layout 8-based trolley-tram layout (see previous post for a plan drawing):

 

Overall view (with 2 large-radius Unitrack loops around it for my trains). I took care to make the cables somewhat tidy.

 

View showing 4 Modemo Tokyu Railway "Setagaya" trams in their starting positions.

 

A more street-level view (from behind the 7-11).

 

Rich K.

Edited June 25, 2020 by brill27mcb

[katoftw]

Does that mean you can have 4 trams with 8 sections?

[sandiway]

(Unknown update)
 Presumed addition of Control Unit program Version 1.02

 

This one was never released?

 

The 202005 Update contains “cu001003.tuf”, “cu001004.tuf” and “cu001005.tuf” and updates the system to Version 1.05. From this, it appears that this update includes the V1.03 and Version 1.04 updates, and can update earlier versions to Version 1.05 in one single process, rather than stepwise.

 

Did you try updating in one go from 1.01?

 

Sandiway

[sandiway]

I've integrate Layout Plan 3 Endless  EX Development 1 (2 passing sidings; one loop; max 4 trains) with 2 ND Units, 8 blocks into my layout as the innermost loop.

Took a while to organize/hide the wires.

 

Of the updates, Layout Plan 11 Mode 30 is a similar thing (2 passing sidings; one loop) is the only one I'm kinda interested in out of his TNOS Plan 11 Summary video. But it requires 3 ND Units (I don't have the 3rd yet) and 10 blocks. 10 blocks is finer-grained subdivision and should result in smoother running of 4 trains, but the 5th train option (not available with Plan 3) is a bonus. Modes 31-33 involve 6 to 8 trains and too much stopping IMHO.

 

Layout Plan 11 Development 2 has 5 yards as well! Doesn't this mean there are Modes involving yard work that involve more than 3 trains?

(Layout Plan 2 Endless DX Development has the 3 train version covered.)

And there are Modes 34-38, which are not covered in this video.

And there are also Modes 51-56. Are videos for these available?

 

 

[brill27mcb]

14 hours ago, katoftw said:

Does that mean you can have 4 trams with 8 sections?

 

Yes, TNOS Layout Plan #8 has 8 block sections. They provide operating sequences for running 1 to 7 trams at a time. For 1 tram running you don't really need TNOS - it's just for testing and debugging your setup. 7 trams means that only the tram with the empty block ahead can move, then the one behind it can, then the one behind that one, and so on, so only 1 tram at a time can move. It's a ridiculous option, but there's a video on Youtube of such a layout being displayed at a train show in Japan (with zippy Tomytec trams). Having done modular club trolley layouts with automated modules in O Scale for decades, I have developed the "1 car for every 2 blocks" general rule, unless you like lots of stopping. So 4 trams run well on this 8 block layout. With 2 or 3 trams, the faster trams eventually bunch up behind the slowest tram, leaving the rest of the layout empty, so why not run 4?

 

Rich K.

 

 

[brill27mcb]

11 hours ago, sandiway said:

(Unknown update)
 Presumed addition of Control Unit program Version 1.02

 

This one was never released?

 

The 202005 Update contains “cu001003.tuf”, “cu001004.tuf” and “cu001005.tuf” and updates the system to Version 1.05. From this, it appears that this update includes the V1.03 and Version 1.04 updates, and can update earlier versions to Version 1.05 in one single process, rather than stepwise.

 

Did you try updating in one go from 1.01?

 

Sandiway

 

I have not seen an update that included Version 1.02, but if you look at the instructions for update 2019-02 that includes Version 1.03, the illustrations on Page 1 show the Control Unit displaying "1.02." (not "1.01.") and then being changed to "1.03." Is this illustration not accurate, or did Tomix do an on-the-fly production line update to 1.02 but not release this update separately? I don't know...

 

I, too, think that with the Version 1.05 update you can skip updating to 1.03 and then 1.04 first, and do it all in one step. I wanted to be very careful, however, when I updated, since I have no safety net to get a factory replacement SD memory card here in the U.S., so I followed Yavianice's advice and did it step-by-step.

 

Rich K.

[brill27mcb]

10 hours ago, sandiway said:

I've integrate Layout Plan 3 Endless  EX Development 1 (2 passing sidings; one loop; max 4 trains) with 2 ND Units, 8 blocks into my layout as the innermost loop.

Took a while to organize/hide the wires.

 

Of the updates, Layout Plan 11 Mode 30 is a similar thing (2 passing sidings; one loop) is the only one I'm kinda interested in out of his TNOS Plan 11 Summary video. But it requires 3 ND Units (I don't have the 3rd yet) and 10 blocks. 10 blocks is finer-grained subdivision and should result in smoother running of 4 trains, but the 5th train option (not available with Plan 3) is a bonus. Modes 31-33 involve 6 to 8 trains and too much stopping IMHO.

 

Layout Plan 11 Development 2 has 5 yards as well! Doesn't this mean there are Modes involving yard work that involve more than 3 trains?

(Layout Plan 2 Endless DX Development has the 3 train version covered.)

And there are Modes 34-38, which are not covered in this video.

And there are also Modes 51-56. Are videos for these available?

 

 

 

Thanks, I had not seen this video of TNOS Layout Plan 11! More to study and learn...

 

My thoughts in the meantime are that it may be, that among all those operating sequence modes for this layout, there are ones to handle the 5-track yard. Or they may count on users doing Manual Forwarding or using the TNOS Command Language (TCL) to write and save sequences for this purpose. Someone with the interest, 3 TNOS ND units, and enough sensors and track feeders to try this out would have to tell us that. Not being able to understand Japanese puts me at a real disadvantage where TNOS is concerned.

 

I have tried to puzzle out TNOS TCL a bit. I see no commands that enable someone to specify the logical arrangement of a new layout design, nor any way to handle the logic of "Is there a train ahead? How far ahead? What speed instruction (or the stop instruction) is appropriate?" or of determining  "What train can move next? And how should it move?" The TCL commands I have seen basically allow you to code the button-and-dial TNOS instructions and do simple Manual Forwarding in a predetermined stepwise process. In a way it reminds me of the 'batch files" from the early days of MS-DOS on personal computers. Rather then using the buttons and the dial to enter commands one by one, you use TCL to write and save a sequence of such commands once, save the file under a unique name, and then just run that TCL file whenever you want that sequence of instructions. I do not see, based on what we know now, how it could be used to create a custom TNOS Layout Plan or a custom full-blown TNOS Automatic Operation Mode sequence, but maybe it can.

 

Rich K.

[Yavianice]

 

4 hours ago, brill27mcb said:

I have tried to puzzle out TNOS TCL a bit. I see no commands that enable someone to specify the logical arrangement of a new layout design, nor any way to handle the logic of "Is there a train ahead? How far ahead? What speed instruction (or the stop instruction) is appropriate?" or of determining  "What train can move next? And how should it move?" The TCL commands I have seen basically allow you to code the button-and-dial TNOS instructions and do simple Manual Forwarding in a predetermined stepwise process. In a way it reminds me of the 'batch files" from the early days of MS-DOS on personal computers. Rather then using the buttons and the dial to enter commands one by one, you use TCL to write and save a sequence of such commands once, save the file under a unique name, and then just run that TCL file whenever you want that sequence of instructions. I do not see, based on what we know now, how it could be used to create a custom TNOS Layout Plan or a custom full-blown TNOS Automatic Operation Mode sequence, but maybe it can.

 

TCL is exactly that. It is not possible to configure your own layouts. You can do shunting with TCL (what you also can do without TCL just by operating the dials) and that's it. 

 

Also only 1 train can operate in TCL mode at a time.

 

So realistically it can only be used to move trains to a specific part of track for storage without needing you to take trains off and on the track on specific places when you want to change trains.

[sandiway]

Has anyone else seen this? The fun starts at minute 11 and on to the end. 

Someone can figure this all out and post?

 

[brill27mcb]

On 7/12/2020 at 7:36 PM, sandiway said:

Has anyone else seen this? The fun starts at minute 11 and on to the end. 

Someone can figure this all out and post?

 

 

This Youtube poster has been experimenting with the Tomix TNOS Control Language (TCL) for a while. One of the TNOS updates included some new basic-looking Layout Plans, using just 1 ND Hub, and this is one of them. They seem to be platforms for people to use to write and test out TCL programs. He/she has added sidings to this plan, and the scripts bring out and put back trains in the sidings. This person is also showing how to mix TCL programs with another added TNOS feature, which is the ability to emulate a basic power unit (PU), or power pack, to manually run trains and throw points/track switches, so it gets confusing. The video shows printouts of some TCL programs, which you can pause the video on and study, but unfortunately not the one that you pointed out. What's interesting is that he/she gets 2 trains running at the same time. We didn't think this was possible with TCL and the Forwarding Mode of the TNOS unit, but apparently it is...

 

Too many Japanese videos fall short on offering full explanation and helpful clarity to their viewers, in my opinion. This one comes close, but remains just a little frustrating.

 

Rich K.

[Yavianice]

This guy is very helpful. I asked him to share his insights in getting two trains to run simultaneously with TCL.