Lost with No Direction

[VentureForth]

Help.  I've been at this N gauge thing for over 30 years.  Since the very beginning when my dad bought my first train set that I tore apart on Christmas Day back 33 years ago, my lot of equipment has been a mixed bag.  From the beginning, my dad had a mixture of Kato, Tomix and Atlas or some other American brand thrown in for bad measure.  Anyway, to this day, I'm just a calico collection of everything.

 

Today, I still have much of my original brown Tomix track, which is in relatively bad shape. However, when they are joined, they are pretty solid.  I have 8 pieces of FT which interface with the old stock nicely.  Just ugly to have two different color track.  I have about 8 pieces of Kato Unitrack (old version) which is fairly pointless.  These came from my dad who had no idea about compatibility (except he did get a Tomix-Kato converter).  These few Kato pieces have really no function at all. 6 straight, 2 curves and 2 turnouts.  Finally, I recently acquired a lot of Atlas Code 80 black track.  18 pieces of 15-degree 485mm radius curves, 18 pieces of 30-degree 250mm curves and a lot of straight 125mm pieces.  I also have four functioning electric turnouts.

 

All my rolling stock is from all companies from Japan and the US.  Tomix, Kato, Atlas, Bachmann, Athearn, Life-Like, etc.  Of course, my Japanese stuff runs the best.

 

I can connect the Atlas stuff pretty easily to my Tomix stuff.  But for a perm layout, I'll need some trackbed, which I have plenty of, to equalize the height a bit.

 

I've been able to make a couple of neat single-track layouts.  I guess my hopes are dashed at having a solid double track system.  I'm going to probably sell/scrap my Atlas turnouts and just splurge on a bunch of Tomix turnouts for a station and entry to a yard.  I'll use the Atlas for long runs and yard work.

 

Why don't the Americans have electrically isolated turnouts like Tomix and Kato?

 

Anyway, I digress.  I hate waste, and I'm trying to get something put together so that I can have a good station for my new 0-2000 8-car Kato Shinkansen which will take up the full side of a 4x8 sheet of plywood.

 

I'm just going to have to sell off all my HO and G stuff.  No room for them, and just not interested.

[kvp]

Personally i would suggest you to just choose one track system and stick with it. In your case, the Tomix finetrack seems to be what could be usable. You could just sell the Atlas and Kato tracks and get Tomix finetrack instead, which would allow you to have a double track layout if you want. You can blend old and new Tomix tracks, like for example by using the old tracks for a branchline or as industrial/yard tracks or consistently transitioning from one type to the other at a few places. Real railroads with recent reconstuction works only on some of the sections look exactly like that. It's much easier to get old and new Tomix tracks to match than to get Tomix and Atlas tracks to match, expecially if you look at the tie size and spacing.

[VentureForth]

Thanks.  This is the direction I think I'm headed.  If I double track, then may be able to reduce the number of turnouts - one crossover and one to the yards.  But I still like Tomix turnouts for the yards, so I may stick with those so I don't have to get into crazy wiring schemes. Or just use the Atlas turnouts for freight storage.

 

The looks will be a bit of a concern, but if I get enough new FineTrack, then I can separate them easier.

Back to Traxeditor.com to play in the sandbox...

[cteno4]

Kvp suggestions are wise, sticking with a single track type makes life a lot easier and cleaner. Blending the old and new colored roadbeds in different areas helps and it can become a "feature"!

 

Waste is not good, but making you model rr hard to work on, runnand maintain then defeats your goal of having a fun rr to play with and if it's cranky to build, maintain and run then you won't work on it and play with it so that's an even bigger waste of materials, time and effort.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[VentureForth]

Wise, Jeff.  Thanks!

 

Now my next probably-not-a-real-dilemma.  Being as old as my stuff is, I don't think I even want to foray into the world of Tomix CL any more than I'd want to get into DCC.  Am I correct in understanding that if I go the CL route, then much of my old rolling stock would be useless?

 

Note - in the interest of cost, I may use some of my Atlas flex track in areas unseen to make some difficult connections.  Tomix's geometric perfection doesn't always work out just right and sometimes makes for too pristine of a layout.

Edited May 24, 2017 by VentureForth

[kvp]

 

 

Now my next probably-not-a-real-dilemma.  Being as old as my stuff is, I don't think I even want to foray into the world of Tomix CL any more than I'd want to get into DCC.  Am I correct in understanding that if I go the CL route, then much of my old rolling stock would be useless?

Actually the Tomix CL (constant lighting) system is just a nice feature on top of the classic analog DC system. The PWM modulation it uses makes even cranky old 3 pole DC motors run a bit smoother and if your trains are not equipped with constant lighting support (aka. LED lights), then they will still work as normal analog trains, so their lights won't stay lit when stopped, but pretty much this is all. The only drawback with Tomix controllers is that they have a peak voltage output of 12V DC, which is normal for most japanese trains, but might make some of the more ancient american and european models designed for 16V run a bit slower at full throttle. One problem is that you can't use low voltage DC motors (like 3V or 6V types) with a PWM (pulse width modulation) controller, but old N scale trains with low voltage motors (below 12V)  are pretty much non existent as any normal DC power pack would damage them.

[VentureForth]

Well, then, that's a thought.  I knew Tomix CL wasn't DCC, but I thought that folks were having trouble running traditional stock with it.  In that case, it may be a nice feature.

[nah00]

Always a good place to start when you hit a roadblock:

 

http://www.katomodels.com/unitrackplan/

 

It's in Japanese but it translates well enough using Chrome. Keep in mind it's easier to swap Unitrack pieces in these plans to Tomix Finetrack than the other way around due to Unitrack not having as many pieces. 4x8 gives you a good amount of space in N scale even using broad curves and more than adequate space to run 2 trains simultaneously. You also have a nice amount of space to add storage tracks around your station or on the other side of the layout. 

 

The really nice thing about both of these tack systems is they don't tie you to a design as much as conventional track does. Also you can set up a design, run trains on it, and then take it apart if it doesn't appeal to you or is different than what you wanted. After using Unitrack I don't really see myself going back to track and roadbed anytime soon, maybe moving to Tomix at some point but I have a lot of money sunk into Unitrack. 

 

For me the most important part is to get trains running first and work on the rest from there. Scenery is a lot of work and if you start it before finalizing a track plan you may find yourself changing it and undoing a lot of hard work. Also don't discouraged if you just go with a loop, you can make a roundy-roundy look a lot bigger than it is very easily in N scale.

[Ochanomizu]

Well, then, that's a thought.  I knew Tomix CL wasn't DCC, but I thought that folks were having trouble running traditional stock with it.  In that case, it may be a nice feature.

 

Hello,

 

I think your old rolling stock will operate with Tomix CL.  MicroAce rolling stock is not CL compatible, yet runs nicely with my Tomix controllers.  Occasional humming noise from MA motor when very low voltage in stationary position is applied.  I guess that is the CL component reacting with the motor.  Others on the forum know better than me.

[kvp]

There is a CL intensity knob on most throttles. For CL compatible sets, it controls the light brightness. If a non CL set hums while stationary this should be turned down until the motor is quiet. (all the way down = CL off)

 

Btw. a surprisingly large set of trains are CL compatible. This even includes some 30 years old maerklin Z trains and two Arnold Rapido N locomotives. (anything with lights diodes and buffer caps)

[VentureForth]

There is a CL intensity knob on most throttles. For CL compatible sets, it controls the light brightness. If a non CL set hums while stationary this should be turned down until the motor is quiet. (all the way down = CL off)

 

Btw. a surprisingly large set of trains are CL compatible. This even includes some 30 years old maerklin Z trains and two Arnold Rapido N locomotives. (anything with lights diodes and buffer caps)

So will the directional lighting still work right? Now I'm interested again to know if you can put CL lighting in Kato emus.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[kvp]

Actually the CL signal is just a high frequency, low duration DC pulse. If you can manage to nudge any standard PWM controller just past the 0 point, you get the same results. The motors stay stationary, but the lights turn on at full brightness. This is achived by using small buffer capacitors for the lights (including the headlights) and diodes for directional lights and full diode bridges for (non directional) internal lights. Direction of the lights are controlled by the main running direction switch. It's pretty low tech and most led based analog lights with anti flicker capactitors already support CL lighting. Even off the shelf modern Kato trains and internal light kits are ok with it and you can increase the effectiveness by adding tiny extra buffer caps to the Kato light boards. (there is a description of it somewhere on this forum in a recent post) Other manufacturers, like Rokuhan for Z scale also support CL and they don't even have a separate knob for it, just a small movable plastic tab to mark the position of the 'already stopped but still lighted' setting on the main throttle.

 

ps: Any modern transistor throttle using higher frequency (around 20 Khz) PWM modulation works as a CL throttle. Creating a CL circuit needs a buffer capacitor with a discharge prevention diode or diode brdige, so the main DC motor could not discharge the buffer capacitor before the next short recharge pulse. (this recharging is done around 20000 times a second, but it actually works with a very low 100 Hz frequency too using home made circuits but that makes older motors hum, so the 20 Khz was a good choice)

[VentureForth]

Awesome.  Thanks for all the info, folks!

[VentureForth]

Well, this shows a couple of layout possibilities using only (for the most part) Tomix track.  It's a simple outer loop with a long, complex inner loop with a yard. I don't know if it will completely work or not, as it doesn't close (but comes pretty close).

 

Thoughts?

 

https://www.traxeditor.com/app/traxViewer.php?ProjectID=14951282991193708&UserID=1495128101968076

 

Note: It's the one in the middle.  The rest are my sandbox toys.  I'm only missing about 22-28,000 yen in track alone.

Edited May 25, 2017 by VentureForth

[bill937ca]

Here's a Tomix track plan that KVP did earlier for another poster. Its smaller than 4 x 8 but has a station with island platform (a typical mainline Japanese feature), room for a Greenmax train shed and a couple of sidings.  Japanese train layouts with through passenger operations tend to have a different style than North American layouts focusing on sidings and shunting.

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/8244-layout-ideas-and-attempts/page-5?do=findComment&comment=128840

 

Also there is the JNS Inspirational Layout thread:

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/6917-inspirational-n-gauge-layouts/?hl=layouts