Combining finetrack tram and bus tracks

[HantuBlauLOL]

Hi guys,

 

I heard that its very possible to combine them both, but haven't seen much.

 

Is there any track plans for this kind of setup on the net? Can't design one in scarm..

 

Also what would it takes to make a working rail crossing and traffic lights?

[kvp]

Tomix tram and bus tracks are available in similar radiuses, so for example you can combine 66, 103, 140 and 177 mm curves in any combination of tram and bus (c66 is only usable with short buses and c103 tram track is not supported by all trams). The most simple setup is having a bus lane of 177 oval with a tram track of 140 inside. This is possible with two start sets.

 

Unfortunately scarm doesn't have the bus libraries, but it would be possible to create one for it if you are good in xml.

 

Working rail crossings have to be scratch built by using a piece of 37mm tram track straight that has the grooves under it for the bus giude wire and adding steel wire in whatever angle you want the road to go. (90 is the easiest) The bus intersection sets have stop tracks, so you have to install at least one for your crossing. Actuation of the bus stop track and the gates also have to be done from scratch, but it's possible to use servos or Tomix turnout magnets.

 

Available traffic lights are imitation only, but could be drillled and hand wired with real leds, but this also needs the bus stop sections to be refitted for remote control to work.

[velotrain]

Rich had double tram tracks with a bus route both inside and outside of them at the East Penn show, so I guess the bus routes were 66 and 177.  I don't have a photo of it, but he might.

[velotrain]

It turns out that I did inadvertently capture the tram/bus loop.  I believe Rich was still in debugging mode at the time and no busses were running.  As you can see, the four 'layers' fit together seamlessly.  If you had any inside corners, based on kvp's info that would restrict what you could run on all four lines.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/29724621@N03/34020093553/in/album-72157684047871356/

 

 

> Also what would it takes to make a working rail crossing and traffic lights?          

 

We saw a rail crossing in a video a couple of years ago - likely somewhere in this forum.

[bill937ca]

Here is the bus system and trams side by side.  This is all Tomix track / roads.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by bill937ca

[velotrain]

Of course, it doesn't make sense to have trams and busses running on the same route, so I like the last video.

 

However, it requires some sort of CAS (collision avoidance system).

 

You could have a shared station with the tram line elevated there.  The lines could be side by side with no crossings, but this would take more space.

[kvp]

Of course, it doesn't make sense to have trams and busses running on the same route, so I like the last video.

However, it requires some sort of CAS (collision avoidance system).

It could be manual and consist only of a stop track before the crossing gate, so a gate that is down would also stop the bus at the stop track. The gate could be automated or simply handled by the layout operator. The right sequence for closing a gate is: warning signal on, stop track on, exit gate down, entry gate down, while the opening sequence is: both gates up, warning signal off, stop track off. It needs 3 servos (2 for the gates, 1 for the stop magnet) and a controllable sequencer, like an Arduino.

[velotrain]

Wouldn't the exit gate down first allow a vehicle to get into no man's land?

 

OR - are they supposed to back up really quickly before the entry gate also comes down?

 

OR - are they just really stupid for driving into a crossing where the exit gate is (coming) down?

[kvp]

Just mixed up the two. Entry gate first as there could be a bus under way across the crossing and they can't back up and won't be stopped by the stop track.

[HantuBlauLOL]

Tomix tram and bus tracks are available in similar radiuses, so for example you can combine 66, 103, 140 and 177 mm curves in any combination of tram and bus (c66 is only usable with short buses and c103 tram track is not supported by all trams). The most simple setup is having a bus lane of 177 oval with a tram track of 140 inside. This is possible with two start sets.

 

thanks, i already got the 140 tram.. need to get a bus set now.

 

 

 

Unfortunately scarm doesn't have the bus libraries, but it would be possible to create one for it if you are good in xml.

 

 

 

i hope they could include them in the future.. i suck with programming lol.

 

 

 

Working rail crossings have to be scratch built by using a piece of 37mm tram track straight that has the grooves under it for the bus giude wire and adding steel wire in whatever angle you want the road to go. (90 is the easiest) The bus intersection sets have stop tracks, so you have to install at least one for your crossing. Actuation of the bus stop track and the gates also have to be done from scratch, but it's possible to use servos or Tomix turnout magnets.

 

Available traffic lights are imitation only, but could be drillled and hand wired with real leds, but this also needs the bus stop sections to be refitted for remote control to work.

 

what kind of wire and magnet should i use?

 

also.. i'm thinking about actuating the stop magnet with the servo of the crossing gate.. not the most realistic though, as the bus should stop from when the siren/lights turned on.

 

the intersection looks interesting..i'll try to look more into it. looks like it has the same switching mechanism as 3 way turnouts

 

 

Here is the bus system and trams side by side.  This is all Tomix track / roads.

 

[videos]

 

thanks for the videos! especially the last one.. definitely have seen that before, but i forgot it..

 

 

 

You could have a shared station with the tram line elevated there.  The lines could be side by side with no crossings, but this would take more space.

 

any example of this? haven't thought about elevated trams yet, thanks for the idea!

Edited May 29, 2017 by HantuBlauLOL

[kvp]

what kind of wire and magnet should i use?

 

also.. i'm thinking about actuating the stop magnet with the servo of the crossing gate.. not the most realistic though, as the bus should stop from when the siren/lights turned on.

I think you should use the stop sections that comes with the intersection sets, they already have the right magnets and mechanism. Activating the stop magnet before the barriers go down is important though, otherwise you may end up closing the gates on the bus if it already went past the stop section when you start to close the gates. So stop magnet first, gates second after a bit of time and open in a reverse order, so the bus won't ram the half closed/opened barriers.

 

For wire, i went to a hobby shop that sells colorful enamel coated steel wire for decoration and bought a spool that has a similar diameter than the Tomix wire. Then cut up the wire to fill the desired slots on the tram track and glued each piece there with a few tiny drops of glue.

[cteno4]

Yeahnthe wire you have to play with to find a good steel wire that the magnets stick to well. If you have a small rare earth magnet take one along to the store and look for anything that it sticks to the best. It's a bit of trial and error. The best stuff I found was some cheap floral wire, nicer stuff were alloys that reduced the magnets grab, cheaper stuff seemed to be the plain steel with mostly iron! The faller wire they sell for the faller system is very iron as it oxidizes like crazy. They don't enamel it at all!

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

> any example of this? haven't thought about elevated trams yet, thanks for the idea!

 

Well, usually the entire tram line isn't elevated, but I'm sure there are examples where sections are.

 

The tram could pass over a depressed roadway on a bridge, and it might be possible to build a shared station there.

 

You can manipulate the surrounding landforms to make this plausible.

[kvp]

The trick with tram crossings that in case of two loops, you will need another crossing to get back on the right side. Also any crossing where the clearence for the buses is high enough to fit under a bridge will mean most of the visible bus/tram tracks around this point will run at different heights, so not really together. Of course a two level layout with one visible and one not so visible crossing is possible. Or making one side a back and forth crossing with two bridges and then getting them level and parallel on the other side for a shared stop

 

For a not straight crossing, i would suggest a 45 degrees crossing by making a 45 degree turn bus piece (by removing half the straight wire and adding a cross angle one), then  making a 45 degree crossing in the tram track, then another 45 degree turn to get back to parallel on the other side. It would be fiddly to get it right, but seems possible. (it's on my long todo list)

 

ps: Personally i think Tomix should at least make a bus crossing set with one or two pieces of tram track and a combined crossing gate and stop section. (this would allow a single motor to actuate both the stop magnet and the crossing barrier with a mechanical sequencer) Two sets would build a two lane crossing. Imho this will be a possibility right after remote controllable bus stops and intersections (as it was originally demostrated).