Tomix 209-0 fits and starts, and growling

[CaptOblivious]

I've got a Tomix 209-0, and it's acting up. When I first got it, it ran smooth as butter. But, you know, I had to take it apart and have a look-see. Now it runs not-so-smoothly, in fits and starts at low speed, and it growls when it runs in reverse. The mechanism is a newer one (no spring drive!), so I don't think it's a design flaw. I just greased the drive-train just to be sure, but it didn't seem to help. Any ideas? Or would more info help?

[alpineaustralia]

Sound like every other Tomix I have. To me it seems its running normally (LOL).

Seriously though, what sort of drive does it run?

[CaptOblivious]

A note: the starts and fits are slight: Just enough to notice at medium speed, and enough to be annoying at slow speed, but nothing like a cranky DE10! The growling noise is likewise slight, and disappears at speed.

 

 

But, Mag, thanks for requesting a photo: Taking this thing apart a second time turned out to be instructive.—I fixed the growling!

 

Photo 1 shows the mechanism for the bugger. Notice how, unlike with Kato mechanisms, the worm gears are in the frame, not the truck. When I had been reassembling this sucker, I had been putting the trucks on before putting on the plastic cover that holds the works in. The frame allows the trucks to slide to-and-fro; the worm gear prevents that from happening. The result is that, if the alignment between trucks and the gear is not PERFECT, the plastic bit that holds the worm gear is pushed out of its very shallow retention bits in the frame, and gets all whomper-jawed. Growling ensues.

 

Lesson one: Install the trucks last! Make sure the worm gears sit flat in the frame when installing the plastic cover first!

 

Still, fits and starts. When I first took it apart, I learned the hard way that the drive shafts are telescoping (an interesting cost-cutting feature…): Parts everywhere, ohgodohgodohgodwhereisitwhereisit, whew! So, knowing that I had handled the bits in the driveshaft, I just lubed up the telescoping bits last night (they looked a tad dry too, but perhaps that doesn't mean anything). No help there.

 

Mind, my track is not likely the cleanest, but inspection reveals its not too bad. I just worry that the uneven performance is worse than it should be given track condition.

[CaptOblivious]

Fixed, mostly. Here's the deal.

 

I cleaned the track I was testing things on. Ran a bunch of different trains, including my always smooth-as-silk Tomix EF81, and found all of them ran just fine. So the fits and starts are all totally the Tomix 209. Time to get systematic.

 

I pulled the trucks, and ran current directly to the brass rails inside the frame. Motor ran smoothly, even at low voltages. So it must be the trucks.

 

Pushed the trucks by hand along the track. Would hardly move! Trucks from other motor cars have always run very smoothly, even coasting when pushed, but these were just binding something awful. So I pulled them apart, and found nothing out of the ordinary. I applied some gear grease to the gearings, reassembled, and…still binding. Finally, I put a drop of Conducta lube between the wheels and the wipers, and…better. Much better. A little running in by hand of each truck and a lot better. Put the trucks on the frame, and…well, it's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better, tons better. I'm calling this one "closed".

 

Alpine: Your Tomix trains that fit and start? What if you tried the Conducta?

[alpineaustralia]

Certainly gives me something to think about Capt

[CaptOblivious]

A little running in—an hour in each direction?—has worked the grease into all the variously creviced bits, and it seems to be running smooth as anything now. Here is a photo of celebration.

[Guest ___]

Must be a TOMIX thing, LOL.

[alpineaustralia]

Love the Martini prop.

Enjoy.

 

BTW - is it DCC'd yet? 

[CaptOblivious]

Love the Martini prop.

Enjoy.

 

BTW - is it DCC'd yet? 

 

Not yet. Waiting for…well, see my next post later today ;D

[alpineaustralia]

Good luck mate.

[CaptOblivious]

Update: Still running badly. In fact, it runs a lot worse now. It has two modes: In one mode, it runs great. In the other mode, it stutters something awful. I've had this thing apart to varying degrees a dozen times tonight, including a thorough cleaning and lube. I've attached a multimeter a dozen different ways, and I've determined, with finality, the problem: Contact between the wheels and the brass rails is pitifully poor. The problem appears to lie between the springs and the rails in the frame. Contact between the springs and the wipers in the trucks appears solid. Contact between the brass rails and the motor appears solid. Current stops flowing when the motor stops, and starts flowing with the motor, so I know it isn't a binding problem (if it was binding, current would spike during the stops as the motor stalled). The resistance between the brass rails in the frame, and the steel track, varies considerably when the train is standing still, between infinite and zero, and fluctuates rapidly.

 

I've brightened up the brass rails where the springs contact them, and applied liberal amounts of Conducta Lube at all contact points, but to no avail. I've even tried streching out the springs in the trucks, just to see (they don't really stretch very well: nicely made springs!) This thing is just running like crap, and I can't seem to fix it. I'm looking now to y'all for suggestions. :(

[Guest ___]

Capt, sounds VERY similar to issues I had with Growly. Jeff's theory is that something like a shaving is getting in between the armatures and the brushing, but it is or can be an intermittent thing.

[CaptOblivious]

Capt, sounds VERY similar to issues I had with Growly. Jeff's theory is that something like a shaving is getting in between the armatures and the brushing, but it is or can be an intermittent thing.

 

Good thought, but I know that's not it because I can get it to reliably recover from bab stall by applying a voltage directly to the brass rails (through the openings for the interior light kit). Also, in that case, when stalled shouldn't current draw increase? In my case it always went to zero. Finally, applying power directly to the motor tabs produced reliable and unvarying rotation with no stalling.

 

Trust me, its something in the pickups in the trucks.

[Guest ___]

Before Growly completely failed, it was running real rough and loud, but was running intermittently. Jeff, dismantled it, then it ran  fora very short time before going all together. In the end, we replaced the motor with the one Alpine sent me. Jeff is going to clean the old motor with the ultra-sonic and see if the theory that there was a shaving between the armatures and the brushing were correct. It's been a good learning experience that may be of use this time, though it may not.

[Hezekiah Strawbody]

Sound like every other Tomix I have. To me it seems its running normally (LOL).

Seriously though, what sort of drive does it run?

 

Why is it that you always have to make disparaging remarks against Tomix ?

 

From my experience and that of many other modelling friends, their releases are usually as good or sometimes better than those from the other major brands.

[CaptOblivious]

Because most of his Tomix models have died horrible deaths on him. He has had no luck with Tomix models at all. Alpine is entitled to his opinion: Let's not be confrontational.

 

Sound like every other Tomix I have. To me it seems its running normally (LOL).

Seriously though, what sort of drive does it run?

 

Why is it that you always have to make disparaging remarks against Tomix ?

 

From my experience and that of many other modelling friends, their releases are usually as good or sometimes better than those from the other major brands.

[Hezekiah Strawbody]

Obviously then a user problem, not Tomix's 

Because most of his Tomix models have died horrible deaths on him. He has had no luck with Tomix models at all. Alpine is entitled to his opinion: Let's not be confrontational.

 

Sound like every other Tomix I have. To me it seems its running normally (LOL).

Seriously though, what sort of drive does it run?

 

Why is it that you always have to make disparaging remarks against Tomix ?

 

From my experience and that of many other modelling friends, their releases are usually as good or sometimes better than those from the other major brands.

[cteno4]

Aaron has had some bad luck with tomix, but he does not have a lot of trains to pull good numbers from. i probably have 150 trains and i have pretty much equal trouble with motor cars among tomix, kato, and micro ace.

 

its hard when each of his two or three tomix motor cars have given him troubles, but i think you are right its not a tomix issue, more just bad draw and maybe environment where some grit, puzz, or hair got sucked into the mechanism.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

 

Sound like every other Tomix I have. To me it seems its running normally (LOL).

Seriously though, what sort of drive does it run?

 

Why is it that you always have to make disparaging remarks against Tomix ?

 

From my experience and that of many other modelling friends, their releases are usually as good or sometimes better than those from the other major brands.

[cteno4]

Captain,

 

i think in this case it may be a small hunk of grit, puzz or hair sucked up into a truck. that can cause it to not want to turn freely and also mess up the contact with the wheel pickups. i have pulled an amazing amount of crap out of some trucks!! one was aaron's z scale loco that had like 7 cat hairs sucked into one truck, i was amazed that that much could get packed into a tiny z scale truck, but it did!

 

since you did the direct voltage i think you are right the motor is fine, although at times aarons de15 would run fine with a direct connection and even on the tracks.

 

aaron's de15's motor would at times run fine outside and with direct power and at other times growl and lock up. thats why i finally thought it might be grit between the armature and magnets that sometimes caused problems and other times was not scraping... the new motor did make it take right off and run great so it looks to have been the motor. still have it and plan to try some ultrasonic cleanings on it to see what i can do to it! fun to have something to experiment on! its alive, i tell you, alive! (hey i got the hair and a phd in science to be the mad scientist character!)

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Hezekiah Strawbody]

Thanks cten - 3 out of 3 seem to prove my point that it is the user, and it does not have anything to do with being 'unlucky'   3 out of 100 would be unlikely - maybe 1 out of 100.

 

Anyway I think if your train doesn't work because ...

 

1. you pulled it apart to see how it works

2. you let little kids play around with it

3. you tried to convert it to DCC (which the manufactuere never intended)

4. you let cat/dogs etc in the layout room

5. you didn't keep your track clean

 

then don't blame Tomix for selling rubbish - they didn't get to be Japan's #1 by creating an inferior product. As for being 'confrontational', I'm sure Tomix would feel the same if they read alpine's comments.

Aaron has had some bad luck with tomix, but he does not have a lot of trains to pull good numbers from. i probably have 150 trains and i have pretty much equal trouble with motor cars among tomix, kato, and micro ace.

 

its hard when each of his two or three tomix motor cars have given him troubles, but i think you are right its not a tomix issue, more just bad draw and maybe environment where some grit, puzz, or hair got sucked into the mechanism.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

 

Sound like every other Tomix I have. To me it seems its running normally (LOL).

Seriously though, what sort of drive does it run?

 

Why is it that you always have to make disparaging remarks against Tomix ?

 

From my experience and that of many other modelling friends, their releases are usually as good or sometimes better than those from the other major brands.

[CaptOblivious]

I did none of those five things. This thread has gone too far off topic. Let me also remind of my warning about not taking a confrontational tone, as it seems to have gone unheeded.

[Bernard]

Hi Hezekiah - I started a new thread to entertain a friendly discussion (or debate if you like) about Tomix because I didn't want to hijack this thread. You probably have some valid points to bring up and I would welcome your input.

Here it the thread:

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,2066.msg19617.html#msg19617

[Guest ___]

Old saying goes, "first impressions are everything"

 

I'd die a happy man never touching TOMIX again. still willing to try my luck with Micro Ace though.

 

Aaron has had some bad luck with tomix, but he does not have a lot of trains to pull good numbers from. i probably have 150 trains and i have pretty much equal trouble with motor cars among tomix, kato, and micro ace.

 

its hard when each of his two or three tomix motor cars have given him troubles, but i think you are right its not a tomix issue, more just bad draw and maybe environment where some grit, puzz, or hair got sucked into the mechanism.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

 

Sound like every other Tomix I have. To me it seems its running normally (LOL).

Seriously though, what sort of drive does it run?

 

Why is it that you always have to make disparaging remarks against Tomix ?

 

From my experience and that of many other modelling friends, their releases are usually as good or sometimes better than those from the other major brands.

[Hezekiah Strawbody]

I did none of those five things.

 

Then I'm sorry to hear about your memory loss - maybe you should re-read your original post.

 

"I've got a Tomix 209-0, and it's acting up. When I first got it, it ran smooth as butter. But, you know, I had to take it apart and have a look-see. Now it runs not-so-smoothly, in fits and starts at low speed, and it growls when it runs in reverse."

[Darren Jeffries]

Capt has already warned (Twice) about the tone used in some of the above posts which has gone completely unheeded. If these warnings continue to be disregarded, I will take the appropriate action against the perps....

 

You have been warned... Play on!