Tomytec Fukuram tram questions

[velotrain]

I recently bought this because it's Toni's favorite color:-)  Mine also - and for longer than he's been living.

 

Anyway, there was a small packet of parts with the tram, and I can't begin to imagine what they are.  There are four of them, and I've been all over the car and don't see any apparent location / receptor for them.

 

 

 

 

Also, my previous articulated tram bodies have been a decently snug fit on the Tomytec chassis, but not so with this one.  The two end sections are so loose that simply turning the unit over is sufficient to dislodge them.  There are any number of possible user fixes, but I'm wondering why this combination appears so poorly fitted compared to the others?  The non-panto end, with the lack of the curved rotational "screens", is particularly problematic.  I don't know if anyone else here has acquired this model.

 

 

[Densha]

Everytime I see this model popping up somewhere I want to get it even more badly. :P

 

Anyway, the part looks like an antenna, to be placed on the roof. The Tomytec Keihan 600 and 700 types also had antenna parts, but no holes in the shell for them to be put in. You have to drill the holes yourself in case of the Keihan trains. It may sound stupid, but was there not some kind of manual or description included? There definitely was a description included in the Keihan trains' packaging.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Densha

[JR 500系]

Like Densha has mentioned, those are the antenna for the tram, and for the Fukuram, there are 2 of them, one on the left and one on the right, and on both ends of the car, which makes it 4 of them... For Tomytec models, you need to first drill a hole so that the antenna can be fitted snugly into the hole to secure it, best with some glue in. It makes the model a little more detailed ~

 

I think you're missing the front piece that came with the model, it fills the void that is between the front and the chassis....  it's a small, grey, U-shaped piece that sits below running from the front to the sides of the tram. It should be inside the shell itself, and needs to be detached from the plastic shell and fitted into the motorized chassis, which will then make the shell fit snugly on the chassis and so it wouldn't fall out so easily...

[velotrain]

Thanks for the info Densha.  I looked at the box again and there is a small graphic showing the antennae.

 

 

 

 

The side plan view also shows this, while the front image suggests one on each side, which would support there being four included.

 

 

 

 

However, I see a round stub in the correct location to support it, but this is only on the right side (from inside the cab, left looking from outside).

 

 

 

 

Proto photos are also confusing, as this photo (the best I've found) shows only one at each end.

 

http://db251db252.exblog.jp/iv/detail/?s=21181226&i=201310%2F11%2F32%2Fe0283532_5452488.jpg

 

Which is confirmed here.  Note the proto curved turnout about 2/3 of the way down.

 

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/tmiyashi/e/13de0b7e87cfddcfd22cd3846a2cd31b

 

However, the rightmost proto photo on HS seems to show two antennae.

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10421162

 

Since the model only has a mounting post for one at each end, that's what I'll use.

It's possible it does vary by the specific car (or timing of the photo?) on the proto.

 

 

Even though the model comes with a folding single pole pantograph, I've decided to replace it with a Kato 11-421 - due to the cheesy look of the Tomytec product.  It isn't quite the same design as the proto, and will require a bit of a custom fit, but I think it looks a whole lot better.  I'll also do some light weathering on the roof so it looks less plastic-y and pristine.

 

I actually bought two of them - with power units, and hope to couple them together to have a really long tram to snake through complex and tight curves.

 

 

JR - thanks for the end cap tip.  In the past I've found these easy to spot, so I'll have to make a more complete search.

 

 

PS - Instead of drilling a hole, I think I'll saw off the bottom of the antennae, and mount it on the (one) post provided.

Edited April 12, 2017 by velotrain

[katoftw]

There would be either instructions on the box or a leaflet to tell you to drill a hole from the inside to fit the antenna.

[velotrain]

I discovered why I didn't initially see the shim.  I'm used to the castings that are intended to be pressed on just at the very ends of the chassis, and hadn't ever seen the thin, extended U-shaped piece used here, which also continues along the side of the car for a good ways - actually, to the end of that body segment.  It's quite fragile and thin, about 1/32", so I plan to glue it to the side of the chassis to prevent damage when removing or attaching the body casting.

 

 

 

 

Kato - there were no instructions or leaflet of any kind that I could find.  However, that doesn't mean that some of the Japanese text on the box explains this.

 

Based on the antennae casting, I'll agree that it looks as if it was meant to be inserted through a drilled hole, but since that post is there on the roof in the correct position, I plan to use it.  Actually - I've decided to drill up through it from the bottom.

 

From the proto photos I've seen, there is no standardization on the number of antennae.

 

https://twitter.com/hashtag/%EF%BD%86%EF%BD%95%EF%BD%8B%EF%BD%95%EF%BD%92%EF%BD%81%EF%BD%8D

 

This yellow car has two of them, but they appear to be sitting on some sort of platform that most of the cars don't have.  You can also see this on the blue car in the same blog:

 

https://twitter.com/hashtag/fukuram?lang=en

 

However, note that the red one in the initial photo (and further down) has no antennae at all which I can discern.  After getting curious about the mini-platform on the yellow and blue variants, I've been unable to find an overhead shot of this tram.

 

 

[kvp]

I have one of these too and managed to put it together (skiped the antenna as they are too fragile, the paddings held onto the shells). The running characteristics however... This a type of tram is called a cobra in europe as due to the single articulation, when going into a curve the front section pushes out the back one in the other direction using the middle as a lever. This could get very sneaky in an S curve or on a double crossover. There are active parts in the prototype meant to straighten out the tram after a curve. However the latter seems to be missing on my model as the tram happily continues on the straight in a bunched up S form, at least until the next curve. Does anybody else have the same problem?

 

ps: does not run on C103, runs on C140 (including S curves)

[railsquid]

Kato - there were no instructions or leaflet of any kind that I could find.  However, that doesn't mean that some of the Japanese text on the box explains this.

 

There's a text box on the bottom of the box with instructions for the antenna. Just bought an example (but no power unit yet), haven't had time for a detailed look.

[railsquid]

There's a text box on the bottom of the box with instructions for the antenna. Just bought an example (but no power unit yet), haven't had time for a detailed look.

 Apologies, the diagram is on the reverse of the box. 4 pink arrows pointing to the mounting locations; it says use a 1mm drill bit and glue antenna in place if necessary.

[JR 500系]

 Apologies, the diagram is on the reverse of the box. 4 pink arrows pointing to the mounting locations; it says use a 1mm drill bit and glue antenna in place if necessary.

 

Here it is:

 

 

At the top of the box though ~  :P

 

Most Tomytec models would recommend this, and they describe it as 'something for the more advanced"

[velotrain]

For some odd reason I looked on the edges of the box but not the bottom (or top as it's known in Sillypore ;-)

 

To my eye their plan drawing does not resemble the actual layout on the top of the tram - at either end.

 

However, their indicated location does indeed align with the molded post I've previously mentioned, so I'll drill through that to mount one antennae at each end.

 

I've also decided it would be better to glue the shim to the body, rather than the chassis.  After working with the car for a short while, I noticed that there was a kink on one of the shims, so felt it would be better to secure it.

[velotrain]

I have one of these too and managed to put it together (skiped the antenna as they are too fragile, the paddings held onto the shells). The running characteristics however... This a type of tram is called a cobra in europe as due to the single articulation, when going into a curve the front section pushes out the back one in the other direction using the middle as a lever. This could get very sneaky in an S curve or on a double crossover. There are active parts in the prototype meant to straighten out the tram after a curve. However the latter seems to be missing on my model as the tram happily continues on the straight in a bunched up S form, at least until the next curve. Does anybody else have the same problem?

 

ps: does not run on C103, runs on C140 (including S curves)

 

 

I haven't run mine yet, but can easily imagine this happening with the bogies located in the middle of each section.

 

Shades of Jeff's Green Monster!

 

I am somewhat surprised (and disappointed) that Tomytec didn't plan for this in their design - and testing (they do test, don't they?)

 

I should think there would be some chatter about this on Japanese forums, with attempts at correcting it.

 

My initial thought would be a piece on very thin spring "steel" ? connecting the sections - not strong enough to cause problems on the curves, but able to straighten things out after them.  Perhaps a strip of something running just below the roof?  Feel free to suggest likely materials - I'm dubious about the steel.

[kvp]

Imho the Tomytec idea was that the middle bogie is not allowed to rotate relative to the shell and this should straighten the two end sections. The problem is that this middle bogie has a bit of a rotational side play due to the rail gauge beging wider than the wheel gauge. This allows it to remain somewhat diagonal to the rails, thus pushing the two end sections to an angle. It happened for me on Tomix street tracks after exiting C140 curves (both normal and S curves) The fact that only the middle and one end bogie is powered doesn't help either. (the unpowered bogie is actually a powered bogie without the internal gearing)

[velotrain]

Can't you insert a shim along the sides to prevent/reduce the middle bogie side play?

[kvp]

Can't you insert a shim along the sides to prevent/reduce the middle bogie side play?

It's not the bogie as it's fixed. The side play is in the rail/wheel interface. This allows the middle section to slightly twist relative to the rails. Of course, i'm not sure that changing the wheel flange distance to better match the rails on a straight would not jam the whole tram in a 140 mm curve or cause the wheels to ride up on the rails. Imho further testing is required as the design itself would be self aligning if the center section could align itself.

 

ps: Does anyone else have the same problem?

[velotrain]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Densha]

Nice! What radiuses are you using here?

 

I'm sure Tomytec will release all other colours to make the collection complete haha.

[velotrain]

This is 140 and 177 - kvp mentioned not to try 103.

 

I much prefer the look of the Kato pantograph.

[railsquid]

Saw this post on one of the Japanese Facebook groups complaining about the tendency of these to not return to a straight line; poster says they identified the parts which were sticking/jamming and filed them down (doesn't make clear exactly which parts though).

[velotrain]

Interesting that he mentions: "It was the same as when Green Mover".

 

Yes - he's certainly less than forthcoming with his approach.  kvp had earlier suggested "the problem is that this middle bogie has a bit of a rotational side play due to the rail gauge beging wider than the wheel gauge. This allows it to remain somewhat diagonal to the rails, thus pushing the two end sections to an angle."

 

If that is the culprit, I don't see how filing anything down would resolve it.  I'm more inclined to add a springy wire down the middle, either top or bottom.

[brill27mcb]

Hi Charles,

 

I had one at the East Penn trolley meet and thought we discussed this. My experience with my tram was that the fake articulation bellows slightly rubbed the inner edges of the adjoining section. Mine actually created a raspy racheting noise when I hand-rotated the sections, which revealed the problem. You can remove the body sections from the chassis and gently use your fingers to press and bend the bellows inward slightly and the adjoining body panels outward until they do not make any contact. You can also use a hobby knife to scrape away some of the backside edge of the body panels to give more clearance for the bellows. I found it also helps to run the tram with the motor and powered trucks toward the front. My tram still does a strange action when entering and leaving the curves, when one section is on the curve and the other is on the straight. The section on the curve pulls the section on the straight slightly to one side for a moment. That's just the geometry of the situation, with no diminishing radius transition between the straight and the curved sectional track pieces.

 

Rich K.

[velotrain]

Hi Rich -

 

Yes, I do recall that, but it wasn't clear if the Japanese blogger was addressing the same problem - on the possibility that there could be multiple issues.  kvp suggesting that the cause was the narrower gauge wheel spacing on the middle bogie axles moved me toward thinking this.  Also - I'm not sure that your fix fully addresses the problem with S-curves.

 

Since I have two powered units, I may try something else.  Determine which is "faster", and put it at the front, with the slower unit behind.  My prior experience suggests that the Tomytec powered chassis are not all created equal.  I'm hoping that this arrangement will create sufficient drag to straighten the pair out.  Perhaps something similar could be done with a single unit by having the powered bogies up front and some drag created on the trailer bogie at the rear.

 

Charles

[kvp]

Imho any friction issues could be fixed by aligning the spacers on the end sections. The S curve problem however is present even without the shells.

 

This tram has a cobra mechanism, which means entering or exiting a curve pushes the section on the straight in the opposing direction. The prototype has active straightening mech, while the Tomytec chassis relies on the center section to align the two ends. This works if the gauge is fully matching, but that would jam the tram in the curves and model rails usually don't have gauge widening in the curves. Running the tram motor first might help, but it's a bidirectional tram and the center bogie is also powered. Imho adding that weak longitudinal spring suggested earlier might help as the prototype uses a similar solution.

 

ps: This type of all bogies tram is very bad on the track in tight non eased curves and has caused some problems both in Prague and Budapest.

[Ken Ford]

That is a very attractive tram! The only articulated tram I have right now is a Kato Portram, this is more generic and looks like it could be a stand-in for a North American light rail system. Are there full doors on both sides?

[brill27mcb]

That is a very attractive tram! The only articulated tram I have right now is a Kato Portram, this is more generic and looks like it could be a stand-in for a North American light rail system. Are there full doors on both sides?

 

Yes, Ken, there is a full complement of doors on both sides. Even better, there are "front" doors on both sides at each end, so it looks OK running on the right side or the left side of the road. It's a modern tram that would look at home anywhere in the world.

 

Rich K.