Tomix PX280 and 5536 selector switch

[sandiway]

Can someone please explain to me the proper use of the PX280 with the 5536 selector switch? Or point me to an English language article explaining it.

 

So suppose you have a double loop with two controllers (one per loop) plus the PX280 to cross between the two loops.

 

If the PX280 is set to "straight through", the two loops are independently controlled. Fine.

 

Now, if the PX280 is set to "crossover", the two loops seem electrically merged/combined.

I'm not sure what happens in that case with the two controllers.

Anyway, it appears one is supposed to use the 5536 selector switch. How? Why?

 

Please explain.

Thanks very much.

[kvp]

This switch should be mechanically bound together (by using a connection bar) with the turnout control switch to select the power of one of the loops between controller 2 (straight) and controller 1 (crossover). The other loop should always use controller 1. When the turnout is set straight, both loops have their own controllers, but when in crossover mode, both loops are controlled by a single controller. This allows smooth transition from one loop to the other without connecting together the outputs of two controllers. (in case of Tomix, this could be two pwm controllers, which would mean the motor would get both signals OR-ed together and go 'crazy')

 

This switch could also be used to form a classic cab control circuit, where each block is can be powered from any of the two controllers. They could also be cascaded for multiple controllers, forming a controller selector daisy chain.

 

Connections:

Connect controller 2 to the input of the switch, which is the short cable. Connect loop 2 to the normally connected output of the switch (one of the bottom ones). When you select the crossover position, you also cut out controller 2. That's all. (the trick is to use the connecting bar so you always throw both switches together) It depends on your turnout switch type which position (up or down) is the crossover position, so you must select the right output on this switch based on that.

[sandiway]

Let me see if I got this right now.

The 5536 looks like this

http://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/report/n/images/5535_5536/5536.jpg

The brown cable should go to a controller.

Then there are three sockets where one can plug something into; the top one is called H, and it is always on no matter what the setting of the switch. The lower two are called I and J, and flipping the switch sends power to I or J.

 

So to switch power on/off from the controller, you simply plug the feeder cable into one of I or J.

And H is unused in this configuration.

So the 5536 is simply acting as an on/off switch for the controller.

Edited March 31, 2017 by cteno4

[kvp]

Yes. By throwing this together with the turnout, you turn one of the controllers off.

[sandiway]

that explains diagram 9 in the N-PX280 leaflet well.

[sandiway]

But how about diagram 11? I guess this calls for two Y-splitter cables plus 4 feeders. Then, each controller has two feeders, one on each side of the N-PX280. Can you explain the advantage of 11 (over 9, in the previous post)? Thanks very much!

Edited March 31, 2017 by sandiway

[mrp]

Can you explain the advantage of 11 (over 9, in the previous post)?

I don't think you want the 5536. Shouldn't you be looking at the 5533?

 

I don't know about recent releases, but I'm pretty sure that the original PX280 (like the one I'm using here) doesn't have power routing. All four tracks are fully isolated, so you need to supply power to both sides of the cross-over. If you have a loop - like in diagram 9 - then you can get away with 2 DC feeders from the 5533. I guess diagram 11 is dealing with the case where you *don't* have a loop, so you have to supply power to all four tracks independently. I don't think you need any Y-splitters - the 5533 switch box is designed to support both cases.

 

http://www.tomytec.co.jp/tomix/products/n/images/5533.jpg

Edited March 31, 2017 by cteno4

[Madsing]

I have recently purchased PX280 and I can confirm that they do not have power routing. All four tracks are isolated.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kvp]

The old single piece cast frog variant (brown roadbed, pre finetrack) worked the same way as the current Kato one. The newer type Tomix should have power routing instead of full isolation. If this isn't the case, then there is a problem and the two input switch is needed to select between the two throttles.

Edited March 31, 2017 by kvp

[mrp]

Sorry for not being clearer - when I wrote "original" I meant the original Finetrack PX280 (Part No. 1247), not the even older brown variant (which I think was Part No. 1217).  The 1247 I have here is fully isolated.

[kvp]

I've checked and the 1247 still uses the old single piece moving part instead of the separate bladed spring loaded cuttable variant used on other modern finetrack turnouts. When all blades move together (to straight or crossover), then it's not possible to cut them unless the loco was standing on the turnout while it's being thrown.

 

This means however that the operation is pretty much like for the old brown roadbed variant and there should be full isolation between the two loops. The difference however to the Kato variant is that it looks like the straight through directions are power routed and both rails are cut in crossover, while both rails are connected while set straight. (could someone confirm this?)

[mrp]

My multimeter is claiming that all the rails are fully isolated - whether diverging or set straight.

I think this diagram in the instruction sheet is confirming that.

  

 

 

 

 

 

[kvp]

Thanks! (i was referring to diagram 12, but it looks like that's the setup when used with the two input power selector box and both outputs connected for a terminus)

[sandiway]

I don't think you want the 5536. Shouldn't you be looking at the 5533?

OK, I understand now.

 

The 5533 universal switch (1840 yen at Yodobashi) seems more versatile as it can do everything the 5536 can.

For a double loop, the cheaper 5536 (1420 yen at Yodobashi) suffices, but as you point out, the 5533 is appropriate for diagram 11. Thanks!

[mrp]

For a double loop, the cheaper 5536 (1420 yen at Yodobashi) suffices...

 

Except that the 5536 doesn't have two input connections, so I don't think you can wire it to do exactly the same job as the 5533 even with external splitters.

 

As far as I can make out from the text under Diagram 10, the idea is that when the double-loop is switched to cross-over it's connected to only Controller (2) - and Controller (1) is disconnected.

 

Normal: C1→L1, C2→L2

Switched: C2→L1, C2→L2

 

I think the 5536 would be able to "make" the C2→L1 connection OR "break" the C1→L1 connection, but not both.

 

But don't quote me...  :)

 

[kvp]

You would need two male-male power cables to connect both controllers to the two outputs and use the bypass output for the track feeder cable.

[sandiway]

Except that the 5536 doesn't have two input connections, so I don't think you can wire it to do exactly the same job as the 5533 even with external splitters.

 

As far as I can make out from the text under Diagram 10, the idea is that when the double-loop is switched to cross-over it's connected to only Controller (2) - and Controller (1) is disconnected.

 

Normal: C1→L1, C2→L2

Switched: C2→L1, C2→L2

 

I think the 5536 would be able to "make" the C2→L1 connection OR "break" the C1→L1 connection, but not both.

 

But don't quote me...  :)

Controller 1 wired directly to one loop. Controller 2 wired via 5536. Double loop.

[kvp]

The problem seems to be that for power routing crossovers, the single source switch would be enough. For fully isolated ones, the select from two sources variant is needed. It depends on the crossover type you have which one is needed.

 

ps: the single source variant could be hacked to work with fully isolated turnouts, but why if there is an off the shelf solution with the double input variant

Edited April 1, 2017 by kvp

[mrp]

Controller 1 wired directly to one loop. Controller 2 wired via 5536. Double loop.

 

 

Here's how I thought it worked (with internals of 5533 simplified a bit):

 

 

When the 5533 is switched, it breaks C1->L1 and makes C2->L1.

 

But the 5536 switches one input between two outputs (compared to the 5533 which switches one output between two inputs) so unless you do as kvp suggested and wire it back to front (using two of those mythical male-to-male TCS power cables), I don't see how it would do the same job.

 

Maybe another approach would be to use the 5536 to simply short the outputs of the two Controllers together when the switch is thrown and then relying on the operator to not power-up both at the same time - but that's probably the type of risky setup the 5533 is designed to avoid.

[sandiway]

I ended up buying the 5533 just to be on the safe side. Wired the PX280 between my two loops up exactly following the leaflet diagram. Works like s charm.

[sandiway]

 

Here's how I thought it worked (with internals of 5533 simplified a bit):

 

IMG_0821.JPG

 

When the 5533 is switched, it breaks C1->L1 and makes C2->L1.

 

But the 5536 switches one input between two outputs (compared to the 5533 which switches one output between two inputs) so unless you do as kvp suggested and wire it back to front (using two of those mythical male-to-male TCS power cables), I don't see how it would do the same job.

 

Maybe another approach would be to use the 5536 to simply short the outputs of the two Controllers together when the switch is thrown and then relying on the operator to not power-up both at the same time - but that's probably the type of risky setup the 5533 is designed to avoid.

 

EDIT: I believe the 5536 works because the inner loop becomes one with the outer loop in crossover mode. So even there is no power to the original inner loop feeder, it doesn't matter.

 

But I'm glad I got the 5533 and on my layout everything is working fine.

Edited April 2, 2017 by sandiway

[mrp]

EDIT: I believe the 5536 works because the inner loop becomes one with the outer loop in crossover mode. So even there is no power to the original inner loop feeder, it doesn't matter.

 

Interesting.  Have you actually tried it?  For example, by switching to crossover mode and unplugging one of the two DC feeders, then confirming that a train will still traverse the full "folded figure-8"?

 

I just checked again and the PX280 I have here doesn't work like that.  When I switch it to crossover there's no internal connection at all between the inner and outer tracks - or between any two tracks for that matter - all eight individual rails always remain fully isolated from the others.

[sandiway]

 

Interesting.  Have you actually tried it?  For example, by switching to crossover mode and unplugging one of the two DC feeders, then confirming that a train will still traverse the full "folded figure-8"?

 

I just checked again and the PX280 I have here doesn't work like that.  When I switch it to crossover there's no internal connection at all between the inner and outer tracks - or between any two tracks for that matter - all eight individual rails always remain fully isolated from the others.

 

Yeah, thinking again, the long way around the outer loop to the inner loop still needs to pass through the PX280 first, so you must be right. I'll check next time.