Tomytec Rechargeable Buses?

[Italianmotofest]

Can anyone explain to me how to get a rechargeable bus?

 

Which to order?

 

I purchased the A2 Hino set on Amazon and thought it would be the "new" rechargeable version. But it is the LR44 version.

 

When I look at the sets available they all have the 2xLR44 label on the front.

 

Heck, I don't really even understand the difference in the sets at all. Other than the busses may be different colors.

 

Can anyone clarify this for me?

 

Thanks!

 

Bill

[bill937ca]

The rechargeable buses have only been issued by Walthers, a US 35 foot chassis which is bigger than Japanese buses and an articulated version by Tomytec. I have doubts about how quickly the battery buses would be replaced as this would render all existing dealer stock obsolete and not go over well with the dealer network.  As far as I know now the articulated bus is only sold in a set.

[kvp]

There was an earlier quote in the forum from the official q and a session and it was stated that Tomytec is not planning to replace all bus chassis versions with the rechargable type in the short term. It was certainly designed to be replacable as the new variant is resizable to most japanese sizes, but the current LiPo battery wont't fit with the short settings, allowing only long or articulated buses to be powered by it.

 

If someone buys the currently available sets, then it's possible to kitbash a short rechargable frame using the parts, but a much smaller replacement battery has to be fitted to decrease the axle distance on the motor unit. For an off the shelf solution for all short and middle sized japanese buses, the LR44 variant is the only way to go right now. Sadly the LR44 lacks the head and tail lights present on the rechargable version, very much how Tomytec train collection motors lack this functionality, although some shells have the right lenses installed.

[Italianmotofest]

Thank you both for your replies.

 

I guess that's why I didn't get I can't find a lipo version!

 

I'll try to find the Walters version.

 

Thanks,

Bill

[bill937ca]

MB Klein aka modeltrainstuff.com seems to be sold out.  Hobbylinc has most items in stock.  You want the  Operating GMC TDH-4512 Bus Power Chassis -- N Scale Model Railroad Vehicle -- #264583. Hobbylinc also offers the Japanese bus chassis which you have.

 

Try here:

 

http://www.hobbylinc.com/tomy-operating-gmc-tdh-4512-bus-power-chassis-n-scale-model-railroad-vehicle-264583

 

http://www.hobbylinc.com/tomy-gmc-tdh-4512-bus-unpowered-n-scale-model-railroad-vehicle-264354

 

http://www.hobbylinc.com/tomy-north-american-operating-bus-system-starter-set-gmc-n-scale-model-railroad-257998

 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Tomix-Tomytec-N-257998-Operating-Bus-System-p/tmx-257998.htm

 

https://www.walthers.com/north-american-operating-bus-system-starter-set-gmc-tdh-4512-bus-w-track-oval

[brill27mcb]

I heard at a recent train show that people are having issues with the rechargeable batteries going flat in storage and then not taking a charge again. Most of us do not use our model buses every day, unlike a phone, and we also can easily fail to charge them on a regular basis.

 

After getting home and checking my 2 GMC buses with rechargeable batteries, I have discovered that they will not take a charge. Bummer!!

 

I think I have now changed my opinion 180 degrees, and favor the LiPo batteries for model bus use.

 

Rich K.

[HantuBlauLOL]

lipo batteries needs special treatment. will die if went too empty, can explode if went too full.

 

i thought tomytec used li ion.. much safer alternative imho.

[kvp]

Both the lithium ions and the lithium polymers are rechargable batteries. They die (crystalize) if allowed to go flat.

 

Btw. the Tomytec charger has protection against overcharge and turns off before going flat. The owners must immediately recharge the battery though to prevent damage.

[katoftw]

They could be brought back to life using rapid pulses of charge.  But I doubt you'll get that from a usb feed charge system.

[brill27mcb]

Any help would be appreciated, because right now I have 2 expensive static models. I was hoping to showcase them at our East Penn Traction Club's bi-annual National Trolley Meet this May, but I may be telling interested people a cautionary tale instead.

 

I think a good alternative option might be some sort of LR44 battery holder with similar connector plug that can be swapped into these chassis instead of the lithium battery.

 

Rich K.

[kvp]

The two LR44-s have a different voltage than the lithium rechargable battery, so i suggest buying new rechargable batteries or if they are unavailable, then two new chassises. A 3rd party battery might be usable but a mismatched charge voltage or current could blow the whole thing up.

 

ps: This is the same as any modern phone with a glued in battery that will have to be replaced if left uncharged for an extended time.

 

You might want to disconnect the lithium batteries and try to charge them with a dedicated lithium battery repair circuit. They can either blow up, remain discharged or get fixed.

[tossedman]

Apparently they use lithium ion batteries, not lithium polymer. Less likely to blow up on you but you still need to treat them nicely.

Here's a review with pictures.

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/?topic=38828.0

 

Cheers eh,

 

Todd

[katoftw]

At least it look like the batteries are easily replaceable with a clip in plug.  Just somehow need to get some replacement of Tomytec.

[tossedman]

You can get them from Alibaba if you want to order a thousand at a time.

https://datapower.en.alibaba.com/product/60205676149-800647204/UL_approved_customized_3_7v_45mah_li_ion_polymer_lipo_battery_battery_with_PCM_and_connector.html

Edited February 13, 2017 by tossedman

[inobu]

On 2/12/2017 at 6:21 AM, brill27mcb said:

Any help would be appreciated, because right now I have 2 expensive static models. I was hoping to showcase them at our East Penn Traction Club's bi-annual National Trolley Meet this May, but I may be telling interested people a cautionary tale instead.

 

I think a good alternative option might be some sort of LR44 battery holder with similar connector plug that can be swapped into these chassis instead of the lithium battery.

 

Rich K.

Rich,

Here is the jest of the issue. Lipo are susceptible to a chemical break down during discharging events. If left too long the chemical reaction can short the internal components of the battery rendering it useless. Lipo are either raw or with a PCB that protects the battery. This protection circuit will disconnect or create an open in the charging circuit that will warn the charging element not to charge.

 

This is refereed as the sleep mode. If left in this mode too long the lipo will enter into a coma and eventually die due to the chemical reaction.

 

Now the charging element will not attempt to charge the Lipo due to the protection circuit so voltage is never supplied. You can bypass that issue by applying 5v for a few seconds to "wake up" the cell. This momentary boost can establish enough voltage to clear the protection circuitry so the charging cycle can proceed.

 

If you notice the red charging led never came on after plugging in the USB cable. Its because of the lipo PCB. If your lipos are not swollen (indicating of a chemical reaction) you may be able to recover the Lipo.

 

I recovered one of mine that I had boxed up and it is charging now. We'll see if it recovers. I have a feeling that it will because its new but I'm checking for replacement as we speak. I found 2 that might work. 

 

How I did it?

This is a power USB to barrel connector, 2.5 jack with wire. Pay attention to polarity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It took the Lipo out and cut the kapton tape from the solder point. Small incisions flaps so its not exposed after I done. I used the solder points as terminal landing points. I took the 5 volts and zap the lipo for a few seconds. When I check the voltage is was 3.7 again and I put it on the charger and it started charging.

I ran a bit and now I'm waiting for it to full charge.

 

Inobu

 

 

It took the charge. Final voltage is 4.1

Edited May 10, 2020 by inobu

[katoftw]

They could be brought back to life using rapid pulses of charge.  But I doubt you'll get that from a usb feed charge system.

 

 

Rich,

Here is the jest of the issue. Lipo are susceptible to a chemical break down during discharging events. If left too long the chemical reaction can short the internal components of the battery rendering it useless. Lipo are either raw or with a PCB that protects the battery. This protection circuit will disconnect or create an open in the charging circuit that will warn the charging element not to charge.

 

This is refereed as the sleep mode. If left in this mode too long the lipo will enter into a coma and eventually die due to the chemical reaction.

 

Now the charging element will not attempt to charge the Lipo due to the protection circuit so voltage is never supplied. You can bypass that issue by applying 5v for a few seconds to "wake up" the cell. This momentary boost can establish enough voltage to clear the protection circuitry so the charging cycle can proceed.

 

If you notice the red charging led never came on after plugging in the USB cable. Its because of the lipo PCB. If your lipos are not swollen (indicating of a chemical reaction) you may be able to recover the Lipo.

 

I recovered one of mine that I had boxed up and it is charging now. We'll see if it recovers. I have a feeling that it will because its new but I'm checking for replacement as we speak. I found 2 that might work. 

 

How I did it?

 

This is a power USB to barrel connector, 2.5 jack with wire. Pay attention to polarity.

 

 

It took the Lipo out and cut the kapton tape from the solder point. Small incisions flaps so its not exposed after I done. I used the solder points as terminal landing points. I took the 5 volts and zap the lipo for a few seconds. When I check the voltage is was 3.7 again and I put it on the charger and it started charging.

I ran a bit and now I'm waiting for it to full charge.

 

Inobu

 

 

It took the charge. Final voltage is 4.1

Well someone figured it out.  Pretty simple solution also.  Well technically one big burst.  But a couple of 1 second bursts and a voltage check should work.

Edited February 13, 2017 by katoftw

[HantuBlauLOL]

 

 

It took the charge. Final voltage is 4.1

 

 

hey, this battery is widely used on micro drones. 1s lipo. the special charger also not really expensive

Edited February 16, 2017 by HantuBlauLOL

[inobu]

Went through a few charging cycles and its good.

 

Inobu

[brill27mcb]

Good to hear. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

Rich K.

[inobu]

Bus run reminder. Gotta maintain those lipo's

 

I ran my buses for a bit to exercise them. There is still a good charge so Ill leave them alone but will charge them next time.

 

Inobu

[inobu]

I have been keeping up with the charging and its still good today. I don't run constantly but cycle the batteries.

Its been 3 years

 

Inobu

[JR 500系]

Thanks for the reminder Inobu, which just reminded me to take out mine for a little spin... they have been sitting in the box for quite a LONG time... now I worry if they would even start…