It looks like Kato is doing a new run of HO items

[kvp]

44 minutes ago, Kamome said:

That’s great info. Thanks Kiha. 

How about when a cab end couples to a tail end of another Kiha or a Kiro? Would the cab need a diaphragm to couple or would it just use the diaphragm of the coach in front?

As much as i can find out by looking at pictures, many lines have a rule to have the diaphragms installed on either the up or down end only. This means as long as every car on the line always has the same ends point todards the same direction, every car could be connected. This works with non cab ends too, so if you take out a middle car from a consist, it would keep either the up or down end diaphragm and the rest of the set could be joined.

 

Yes, the european practice is to join diaphragms in the middle, which makes it a bit easier to connect cars and also allows slightly mismatched cars to be coupled. (like an accordion diaphragm car with an open platform lattice railing type)

 

For model railway usage, installing the stowed plastic ones on both cars that will be coupled is a good idea, especially with kinematic close couplers as Kiha66 pointed out. On the car ends that will not be coupled, it's possible to follow the prototype standard and add it to either one end or none as dedicated head car ends often had no diaphragm installed. If you prefer mix and match for running (especially common for dmu-s), then adding them to both ends on every car could work too.

[Kiha66]

9 hours ago, Kamome said:

That’s great info. Thanks Kiha. 

 

How about when a cab end couples to a tail end of another Kiha or a Kiro? Would the cab need a diaphragm to couple or would it just use the diaphragm of the coach in front?

 

I guess I’m more used to British EMUs that generally both have a connecting diaphragm on the cab front.

 

Either one!  The diaphragms are standardized, so as long as one car has one it will connect to the other.  The connection points are the same whether it's on a cab end or not.  I am also used to the half diaphragm on each car as that is the American practice.  That style was used on older coaches in Japan like the oha 35 series, where the cars were more likely to be rearranged at the end of each run.

[Kamome]

Thanks to you both Kiha and KVP for your help. 

 

Hopefully the parcel should arrive in the next couple of days and I can have a proper look at them. 

[Kamome]

Test run and details added. Still need to add stickers and dry transfers.

 

These really are great looking models. I especially like the detailing on the Kiha 65 where the hand holds on each seat are molded. I will later pick this detail out with paint to give better definition between the seat frame and fabric. I’m planning to add coach lighting at a later date so the more detail, the better. 

[Kamome]

Well I’ve been working on my Kihas today (58, 65 and 28)

I have toned down the electric blue seating  using Tamiya Enamel grey and Vallejo acrylic blue. As I have added lighting, the standard blue was way too bright. This gives the feel of the colour much closer to the upholstery I’ve seen on the older Kihas in Kyushu. I added drivers to a couple of the cabs as well as painted the cab equipment a pale green colour. I also switched out the hoses for some spare EF65 ones I had. The ones that came with them stick out like the legs of a hunting tarantula. Not sure why they are so straight. The replacement curve under the coupler and resemble the reference photos I have been using. A dab of paint on the taps to highlight them nicely.

 

One minor gripe I had. The Kiha 28 was far trickier to remove the body as well as line up the lighting kit for some reason. The others were very simple and came apart and went together easily. I was planning to add passengers at a later date but I am reluctant to remove the Kiha 28s body again now everything is lined up.

 

Now I just need to add the dry transfers and put the hoses back on. Out of interest, is it best to spray a layer of something to protect the dry transfers?

 

 

[JR 500系]

Looks great! Nice touch to add a female operator instead! 

[Ken Ford]

Very nice!  The Kiha 58 and Kiha 28 I bought haven’t been out of the box, I don’t have anyplace to run HO right now.  The lack of a pilot is disconcerting to my American eye, I need to find prototype photos to see if I can junk the area up a little. 

[Kamome]

12 hours ago, JR 500系 said:

Looks great! Nice touch to add a female operator instead! 

Thanks JR500

 

Just the Kato summer uniform drivers. I liked having an alternative rather than the white shirt male drivers in both cabs.

They both needed their legs cutting off and their behinds filing considerably to get them to the correct height. I did contemplate cutting off and re-positioning their zombie-like arms so that they touched the controls but decided not to. They sort of look like they’re doing that signal pointing thing Japanese drivers do.

[JR 500系]

1 minute ago, Kamome said:

Thanks JR500

 

Just the Kato summer uniform drivers. I liked having an alternative rather than the white shirt male drivers in both cabs.

They both needed their legs cutting off and their behinds filing considerably to get them to the correct height. I did contemplate cutting off and re-positioning their zombie-like arms so that they touched the controls but decided not to. They sort of look like they’re doing that signal pointing thing Japanese drivers do.

 

Yes I know what you mean... having to cut off their legs like a saw movie otherwise they simply do not fit in... with their legs cut off, they tend to lean forward which makes them looks a little shorter... had experience cutting driver's legs off in buses too...

 

But I must say you did a great job! Now maybe can we have some commuters in the trains perhaps?  😛

 

* Love HO for their details, look at the hose! 

[Kamome]

1 hour ago, JR 500系 said:

Now maybe can we have some commuters in the trains perhaps? 

Possibly at a later date. That Kiha 28 really was annoying so I’m not wanting to remove the body again anytime soon. I think due to the way the seating clips in, it pushes outwards when not confined to the body shell. This meant it took about 5 attempts to seat everything correctly including the metal pickups for the interior lighting. Body went on, no lighting, off again, on again, lighting but no contact with the head/tail lights, and repeat!!!

 

 The Kiha 65 and 58 were far simpler as the floor pieces is screwed in holding everything in place. These are most likely to be kitted our with passengers first.

[Kiha66]

Wow, nice work Kamome!  If you ever do open them up again be sure to share pictures of what you did to the cabin area too!  Seeing these pics is making me want to go into Japanese HO more and more...

[Kamome]

9 hours ago, Kiha66 said:

Seeing these pics is making me want to go into Japanese HO more and more...

With the prices becoming more reasonable for Kato HO, it’s difficult to come up with excuses why not. The Kiha 58 with motor was just over ¥9000. That’s the same price as an N gauge steam engine. A non powered trailer about ¥5000.

 

I’m certainly not willing to trade in all my N gauge anytime soon as it suits a purpose. I do like the extra detail you get with HO though.

[Need for High Speed]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:23 AM, Kamome said:

 

I’m certainly not willing to trade in all my N gauge anytime soon as it suits a purpose. I do like the extra detail you get with HO though.

That's why I've been into HO for a long time and have no desire to switch to N scale because HO isn't too small like N and not too big like O its just in the middle. and Z requires micro scopes. lol

 

but,  yeah for some reason I have never been able to figure out why HO from Japan is awlays twice as expensive than HO from America or Europe

Edited May 28, 2018 by Need for High Speed

[cteno4]

Probably small market.

 

jeff

[Kamome]

17 hours ago, Need for High Speed said:

but,  yeah for some reason I have never been able to figure out why HO from Japan is awlays twice as expensive than HO from America or Europe

The plastic molded stuff I would say was reasonably comparative, certainly to British 00 prices which have slowly crept up. Not sure how the American HO compares price-wise.

 

The Japanese brass stuff is overwhelmingly expensive, even some of the older stuff, which by today’s standards, lack a lot of detail. My local hobby shop did show me a nice brass 787 Tsubame from Endo for a customer order he had and the level of detail and finish were pretty stunning. Not sure I could’ve parted with ¥560,000 for a 9 car set but nice for those who can.

 

I do remember visiting Tenshodo in the Ginza area of Tokyo once and seeing an advert for a loan company who specialize for railway collectors. 

 

[kvp]

18 hours ago, Need for High Speed said:

but,  yeah for some reason I have never been able to figure out why HO from Japan is awlays twice as expensive than HO from America or Europe

As Jeff said, it's the size of the market. For Europe and the US, H0 is the main market, but in Japan it's N. Also japanese N is much cheaper than european H0 as the japanese N market is much larger than the whole european model train market as a whole including N and H0 and all other scales. Considering the original development and tooling work has the most of the costs, the more items you can sell from a certain product, the cheaper is can be sold.

 

This is why i think there is a best price and item availablility scale for every region. For British models it's OO, for German, Hungarian and US it's H0, for Japanese it's N. Usually the scale that managed to first establish itself after WW2 as a mass market scale. In Europe and the US, N is the 2nd scale, in Japan it's H0. In the old kommunist east block it was H0, TT and N, thanks to the different manufacturers having no competition, so each could choose what scale they wanted to make regardless of actual demands.

 

On 5/27/2018 at 4:23 PM, Kamome said:

The Kiha 58 with motor was just over ¥9000. That’s the same price as an N gauge steam engine. A non powered trailer about ¥5000.

Or you could get a 5 to 7 car train in N for ¥14000.

 

On 5/27/2018 at 3:59 AM, JR 500系 said:

* Love HO for their details, look at the hose! 

I would like to add that the exact same hose detail is available in N with some of the Tomix high grade models. The only catch is that it comes unpainted, so you have to paint it yourself. (it's only harder due to the smaller size)

 

On the offtopic hand, i would really like to ask Rokuhan why did they have to make the 0.2 mm large roof details as separate parts for some of their kiha-s instead of a molded on part...

[marknewton]

21 hours ago, Need for High Speed said:

...I have never been able to figure out why HO from Japan is awlays twice as expensive than HO from America or Europe.

 

Is it, though? I think the price of Japanese HO is very competitive with models from anywhere else in the world. For example, compare the cost of a Tramway steam loco like their recent C59 with something similar in US outline from Broadway Limited.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Need for High Speed]

7 hours ago, marknewton said:

Is it, though? I think the price of Japanese HO is very competitive with models from anywhere else in the world. For example, compare the cost of a Tramway steam loco like their recent C59 with something similar in US outline from Broadway Limited.

I am not a Steam trains fan (am at higher levels than that, LOL) But yeah the fact that the Tomix ho EF66-100 costs on average the same amount as the US Bachmann ACS-64 due to be release in a few weeks (hopefully) cost anywhere between 200 to 250 USD which is the same amount the Tomix HO EF66-100 costs.

 

Sorry about that, when I said "for some reason I have never been able to figure out why HO from Japan is awlays twice as expensive than HO from America or Europe" I was referring to the comparison of the costs of KTM and Tenshodo bullet trains to European high speed trains. although occasionally I can get the Kato Hayabusa for under 400 USD. HO European high speed trains in the US cost on average about 150 to 250 USD and in Europe they are like 100 to 200 USD when converted from Euros. Japanese Shinkansens on the other hand can cost in the upper hundreds and easily into the thousands in the US. But that is because they are rare and I guess that's what I've been focused on and have gotten angry about. But maybe I'll visit Japan some day and I'll visit every model train store hoping to find Tenshodo's model of the JR500.  Sorry about the confusion in my previous post and the bullet trains I have mentioned so many times are not made my KTM and seem to be much cheaper than KTM models.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Need for High Speed

[cteno4]

The even smaller market as with limited space not a lot of Ho in japan, and the ones that are are probably not made large enought for Shinkansen tracks, hence a tiny market for ho shinkansens. Put on top of that the usual Japanese distribution model for not widely bought stuff to be done in small run for early sellout and even smaller numbers hence higher prices...

 

jeff

[Kamome]

On 5/30/2018 at 6:32 AM, Need for High Speed said:

Japanese Shinkansens on the other hand can cost in the upper hundreds and easily into the thousands in the US. But that is because they are rare and I guess that's what I've been focused on and have gotten angry about.

Also remember that these items are incredibly expensive in Japan. Not many manufacturers have touched Shinkansens in HO due to the fact that a 16-car 0 series in HO is around 5 metres long. My local Hobby shop and Club have one.

 

There aren’t many in Japan who have space to run something of this size. That means that production is left to companies with smaller production runs, usually in brass. So more skilled work is necessary to put them together in asmall factory hence a higher price. These models are aimed at the high earning rivet counters who want a museum quality model to run. 

 

You pay your money and take your choice. I think Ken Patterson said on one of his pod casts, “If you’re looking for a cheap hobby, you could collect Hot Wheels!”

 

For me, I like N for running 10-15 car trains around and stop/starting at stations. 

 

I like HO for shunting and yard operations with the more controlled slow running you get. This also allows you to appreciate the higher detail. 

 

For me personally, watching a bullet train whizz around a track would be no better on HO than it would be on N. Yes you’d have greater detail but would you have an opportunity to appreciate it as it screams past?

 

[Need for High Speed]

10 hours ago, Kamome said:

Also remember that these items are incredibly expensive in Japan. Not many manufacturers have touched Shinkansens in HO due to the fact that a 16-car 0 series in HO is around 5 metres long. My local Hobby shop and Club have one.

 

There aren’t many in Japan who have space to run something of this size. That means that production is left to companies with smaller production runs, usually in brass. So more skilled work is necessary to put them together in asmall factory hence a higher price. These models are aimed at the high earning rivet counters who want a museum quality model to run. 

 

You pay your money and take your choice. I think Ken Patterson said on one of his pod casts, “If you’re looking for a cheap hobby, you could collect Hot Wheels!”

 

For me, I like N for running 10-15 car trains around and stop/starting at stations. 

 

I like HO for shunting and yard operations with the more controlled slow running you get. This also allows you to appreciate the higher detail. 

 

For me personally, watching a bullet train whizz around a track would be no better on HO than it would be on N. Yes you’d have greater detail but would you have an opportunity to appreciate it as it screams past?

 

 

Those are good points Kamome. Although you must keep in mind I am a large, ugly, slobbery, American, and I prefer larger models although G gauge is too big and I hate O guage because 50's American Lionel has always given me bad vibes of the past.  I do not plan on buying a full 16 car set (so what, I don't care if its un realistic just the Tenshodo 6 car set is plenty) Besides only losers collect Hot Wheels speaking of a Bull S**t hobbies Hot wheels is certainly one of them a bit too lower class\redneck for me. model railroading Japanese or not is certainty much more entertaining.

 

Think of it like this people who are really into cars are genuinely into sports cars sleek fast cars with lots of power. What does every other teen car geek loser hang in his\her bedroom a poster of a Lamborghini that's what they want. because they see it as a status symbol. now I do not consider owning HO high speed trains that zoom around the layout at breakneck speed to be a status thing. but its just too fun.

 

I apologize for my profanity

Edited June 2, 2018 by Need for High Speed

[Kamome]

My 3 year old loves Hot Wheels and I enjoy finding cool hot rods for him. I’m probably more into it than he is. Much cooler than the Corgi and Matchbox cars I had.

 

He loves shinkansens and steam engines whereas Iida line EMUs he finds extremely dull.

[Need for High Speed]

obviously I say all that in good humor. (I really don't care what others do)

But in reality I would rather collect Micro Machines than Hot wheels and I like to collect the play sets more than the cars (exp. Hot Wheels City or Micro machines city/army sets). that is what I should have said.

 

Because model railroading, match box, Hot wheels, and micro machines truly go hand in hand because why waste time buying 1:87 or 1:160 scale cars when Match box and Micro Machines work great for scenic areas that might have a road or two in them. (Match box and Hot Wheels are best for HO layouts, Micro Machines are best in N scale layouts)

I have built massive cities that fill half a room using nothing but toys no models the closest thing to a model I use is Girder & Panel sets made by a company Bridge Street Toys. (though not sure if they are still in business or not)

 

But here is some pictures of the N scale city that I've built on the lower bunk of my bed because of space issues and yes you will noticed Micro Machines City play sets being used along with N scale models and custom built skyscrapers and I am also using some girder and panel sets.

My Ho is usually set up on the floor with Bachmann E-Z track. Yes I am a member of several HO clubs that have very large DCC layouts. I only have two, 4 car Kato N gauge shinkansens, N700 and of course my favorite the JR500.

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Need for High Speed