As yet untitled 1960s layout

[moawkwrd]

As my layout has progressed somewhat from the planning stage, I guess I should I be posting in here?

 

 

It's based loosely in 1960s Japan so I can operate both steam and diesel (none of those clean electrics thank you!). Size is 7.5ftx2ft, and is just DC for simplicity (it's my first layout!) using Kato unitrack, controller and point switches.

 

A few pictures:

 

 

My two only loco's so far. Cheap and cheerful C11 and D51. I've got a DE10 and 6 car Kiha 82 set in the post though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The points are arranged in passing loops and then for the station sidings and finally the TMD. My only criticism of the Kato switches are the noise they make.

 

Obviously it's in the early stages and some of the track layout may change (particularly the length of some of the sidings). My next plan is going to be either getting the main structures (platforms, station, freight platforms, engine shed, etc) OR buying the insulation board on which the layout will sit that'll make the landscaping for either side easier, as well as purchasing the Peco turntable and motorising it somehow (I've got a few good links on using an arduino and a small motor which will be a lot cheaper than other means - let alone the Kato turntable).

 

Another issue I've noticed is the well documented one with number 4 points causing derailments. This only happens occasionally on some of the points so it may require some filing.

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by moawkwrd

[Martijn Meerts]

There are steam trains, so obviously it's a good layout :D

 

About the turntable, the biggest issue with motorising a turntable is positioning. Usually you want to be able to just specify a position and have the turntable go there, with a regular motor that's often a problem. Not sure which link(s) you have, but I've seen quite a few that use a high quality stepper motor, which is very accurate.

 

I have a brass turntable kit from World Kougei myself, which I at some point need to both motorise and add DCC controls, so I've been looking at it a bit. An Arduino and stepper motor combo seems to be the best option.

[westfalen]

I like the monument with the steam loco driving wheel, they are a feature of many Japanese stations and loco depots.

 

Good to see someone else who doesn't fall for every Shinkansen that comes out.

[kvp]

The layout looks really nice so far!

 

For the turntable, i would vote for a geared down dc motor and the classic mechanical stops with a limit switch. You just select the direction with a dpdt switch, press the override button to make the turntable move and release the button before the desired stop, so when the switch roller falls into a position hole, the turntable stops. You can make it double speed, so the pushbutton gives full speed, and the parallely connected hole seeking switch has a few series diode pairs for slow speed fine positioning.

 

An arduino, a stepper and an absolute position (or fixed zero position point) sensor is also good, just requires a bit of code, but allows pushbutton position selection and could use wires for turntable track power as the software could prevent wire entanglement.

[cteno4]

Looks like a great start!

 

When I was a kid way back I scratch built my own small turntable. Just an geared down DC motor and I wired up a fast, slow, switch, a reversing switch and an on off push button. I just went around fast then flipped to slow when close and pulled my finger off the on off when it was there. After maybe 25 tries I got it so I could hit it like 98% of the time.

 

I tried to do stopping switches later, but ended up too fiddly in my home made pit to really do well, would need to make a new pit to house the wiring well and be very removable. In the end it would have been cool to be automatic but I found my brain and finger worked well for little investment of time, effort and money! No ardunio 40+ years ago! Just saying that you can also do it simple if you want. But ardunio has opened up a new world if you are capable and willing to give it a whirl!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[kvp]

For a simple position sensor if you have space below the turntable is to make a circle plate encoder and file the positions into it as notches. This allows using a single fixed limit switch with a roller on the end of the arm.

 

Another idea is to have a mechanical linkage from the side of the table to the turntable through a horizontal crankshaft and two bevel gears.

Edited January 3, 2017 by kvp

[serotta1972]

Good stuff moawkwrd!  I'm just wondering though, are those bumpers appropriate for the time period you are modeling.  I am not the Model Railroad Police.  :)

 

[kvp]

I would suggest painting the wood parts of the bumpers brown to highlight them. (also shows that they are of older design and also usable with pre conversion european buffered stock)

[Rod.H]

Kato's bumper type A has a representation a of wooden parts? I thought it just was a concrete block with an unpainted strip of rubber? Perhaps the bumber type b (20-047) would be better fit, but I've found them to be a bit troublesome when it comes to Rapido couplers as it's lower than the coupler centerline, so if I don't stop the train using such eqiped siding at a point just before the bumper, the coupler rides over the top and I get a minor derail when the train departs. 

[MitchGDRMCo]

You're using Kato track so why not get their turntable?

[kvp]

Kato's bumper type A has a representation a of wooden parts? I thought it just was a concrete block with an unpainted strip of rubber? Perhaps the bumber type b (20-047) would be better fit, but I've found them to be a bit troublesome when it comes to Rapido couplers as it's lower than the coupler centerline, so if I don't stop the train using such eqiped siding at a point just before the bumper, the coupler rides over the top and I get a minor derail when the train departs. 

Actually it has wood grain on all three planks and some electrical cable conduits for the light on top. I tend to paint them as well as the raised tie part of every gray unijoiner. http://www.jnsforum.com/community/uploads/monthly_05_2016/post-1969-0-33904000-1463381829.jpg

Edited January 4, 2017 by kvp

[westfalen]

You're using Kato track so why not get their turntable?

 

I was thinking the same thing, it operates flawlessly right out of the box without messing around with cobbled together motorising mechanisms and is a good representation of a Japanese turntable.  It costs more than the Peco turntable but you would have more fun using it than getting it working.

 

Re the bumpers, I like the new 20-060 bent rail style.  I think it would be the type more often used in yard tracks because it would have been cheaper to make. I picture the 20-046 concrete bumper as more of a type used at the end of tracks in stub end passenger terminals.

[moawkwrd]

There are steam trains, so obviously it's a good layout :D

 

About the turntable, the biggest issue with motorising a turntable is positioning. Usually you want to be able to just specify a position and have the turntable go there, with a regular motor that's often a problem. Not sure which link(s) you have, but I've seen quite a few that use a high quality stepper motor, which is very accurate.

 

I have a brass turntable kit from World Kougei myself, which I at some point need to both motorise and add DCC controls, so I've been looking at it a bit. An Arduino and stepper motor combo seems to be the best option.

 

Thanks! This is the link I found about using the Arduino with the Peco turntable: http://modeltraincatalogue.com/downloads/arduinoturntable.pdf

 

I like the monument with the steam loco driving wheel, they are a feature of many Japanese stations and loco depots.

 

Good to see someone else who doesn't fall for every Shinkansen that comes out.

 

I may add the Series 0 Shinkansen at some point because I think it's a beautiful train but I think that would be the only one in my collection.

 

The layout looks really nice so far!

 

For the turntable, i would vote for a geared down dc motor and the classic mechanical stops with a limit switch. You just select the direction with a dpdt switch, press the override button to make the turntable move and release the button before the desired stop, so when the switch roller falls into a position hole, the turntable stops. You can make it double speed, so the pushbutton gives full speed, and the parallely connected hole seeking switch has a few series diode pairs for slow speed fine positioning.

 

An arduino, a stepper and an absolute position (or fixed zero position point) sensor is also good, just requires a bit of code, but allows pushbutton position selection and could use wires for turntable track power as the software could prevent wire entanglement.

 

This is the website I first learned about the arduino on: http://modeltraincatalogue.com/arduinoproject.html which helpfully has all the code basically ready to go.

 

Looks like a great start!

 

When I was a kid way back I scratch built my own small turntable. Just an geared down DC motor and I wired up a fast, slow, switch, a reversing switch and an on off push button. I just went around fast then flipped to slow when close and pulled my finger off the on off when it was there. After maybe 25 tries I got it so I could hit it like 98% of the time.

 

I tried to do stopping switches later, but ended up too fiddly in my home made pit to really do well, would need to make a new pit to house the wiring well and be very removable. In the end it would have been cool to be automatic but I found my brain and finger worked well for little investment of time, effort and money! No ardunio 40+ years ago! Just saying that you can also do it simple if you want. But ardunio has opened up a new world if you are capable and willing to give it a whirl!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

 

Thanks!

 

Good stuff moawkwrd!  I'm just wondering though, are those bumpers appropriate for the time period you are modeling.  I am not the Model Railroad Police.  :)

 

IMG_5303.JPG

 

They're probably not but they seem to be the most readily available of the Kato bumpers here in the UK as well as being supplied in the V3 track pack I bought.

 

You're using Kato track so why not get their turntable?

 

It costs around £250 here, which is roughly 8 times as expensive as the Peco + Arduino.

 

Actually it has wood grain on all three planks and some electrical cable conduits for the light on top. I tend to paint them as well as the raised tie part of every gray unijoiner. http://www.jnsforum.com/community/uploads/monthly_05_2016/post-1969-0-33904000-1463381829.jpg

 

That looks great, will definitely give it a go with mine.

 

I was thinking the same thing, it operates flawlessly right out of the box without messing around with cobbled together motorising mechanisms and is a good representation of a Japanese turntable.  It costs more than the Peco turntable but you would have more fun using it than getting it working.

 

Re the bumpers, I like the new 20-060 bent rail style.  I think it would be the type more often used in yard tracks because it would have been cheaper to make. I picture the 20-046 concrete bumper as more of a type used at the end of tracks in stub end passenger terminals.

 

As said, the cost is prohibitively expensive here in the UK. The Peco and Arduino method, once setup, will hopefully be functionally the same as using the Kato controller.

 

In other news, there have been two new additions to my fleet:

 

 

They're both very nice models and ride really smoothly. However, there appears to be a problem with the Kiha 82's lighting. In forward, the front and rear light up as expected, white at the front and red at the rear. But in reverse, only the rear lights up red. I swapped the cars around and it only lit up white at the front. Bit odd.

Edited January 7, 2017 by moawkwrd

[Martijn Meerts]

I think that Arduino implementation is one I looked at as well, it looks really familiar at least. They use a stepper motor, so it should be really accurate, definitely a good option.

[moawkwrd]

Managed to fix the lighting on the KIHA82 set yesterday, just disassembled the end cars and put them back together again. Hey presto!

 

I also fixed all of my number 4 turnouts with the help of a chisel. Some of them still need it doing on the non-turnout side. Such a faff. I don't understand how they cause derailments and the number 6s don't. Surely Kato must test their products more thoroughly?

 

Awaiting pay day before I place my order for the Kato structures and purchase some insulation boards for the landscape. Such a shame that extruded polystyrene isn't widely available at reasonable prices any more.

Edited January 15, 2017 by moawkwrd