Steam locomotive colours

[Nick_Burman]

I recently posted a picture of my latest N scale acquisition, an Arnold Hanomag 0-4-0T which I intend to use as a Japanese private railway locomotive. Today I sat down, dismantled the loco and set about hacking the buffers and couplers out of it with success. Trouble is, now the frame needs a repaint...and I'm in doubt if I just give the frame a respray in flat black or if I try and restore the original red colour. The question is, was there any railway in Japan that painted the running gear of its steam locomotives red (like German steamers)? The only locos I know of in the country which had red underframes were the Igasa Tetsudo Koppels and the two small German steamers which are now at the Oigawa SL Center at Shin-Kanaya, but did they carry this scheme in their commercial operating days? Any other railways?

 

 

Cheers NB

[marknewton]

Nick, assuming that you're modelling era is mid-to-late Showa, I would repaint the frames in black. None of the colour photos I've seen of private railway locos in that period show red frames, wheels, rods or motion. The only splash of colour other than black is the occasional use of red as the background colour on the loco numberplates, and the odd bit of white edging on footplates.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Nick_Burman]

Nick, assuming that you're modelling era is mid-to-late Showa, I would repaint the frames in black. None of the colour photos I've seen of private railway locos in that period show red frames, wheels, rods or motion. The only splash of colour other than black is the occasional use of red as the background colour on the loco numberplates, and the odd bit of white edging on footplates.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

Thanks Mark. Yes, the tentative cut-off date is 1964 - the year of the Olympics, the first Shinkansen and when Japanese society became more or less affluent again. Also just about the peak period for rural private railways, from that year on closures became more frequent as autos and trucks began biting into traffic. Although I do have one part of my grand schemes which is set in modern times, the loco could then be used on a "torokko" train, akin to Oigawa's first steam services...

 

OK, I have something to do next weekend...need to save some newspaper for the job (no paint booth).

 

Cheers NB

[Nick_Burman]

Better?

 

 

I painted the frame using auto spray paint - it looks less crappy in the picture than in reality, I really need to get an airbrush when I finally relocate (I'll finally have somewhere to use it without my mother going berserk about the mess...). Next in line would be painting over the wheels, but that will have to wait a bit. I'm in doubt about the motion, the plastic looks rather paint-unfriendly, i'ts rather slippery.

 

Cheers NB

[marknewton]

Much better, Nick, much better! :)

 

Are you going to keep the two lamps/lanterns on the front footplate? I think if they're removed, as well as the little steam gong between the sandbox and the safety valves, your little Hanomag will look even more Japanese.

 

I'll be very interested to see how this little project turns out.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Nick_Burman]

Further to the last picture...

 

 

Alas my painting efforts have not been entirely successful, because I did not remove the original Arnold paint from the chassis (tough stuff to remove, kudos to German quality) and did not prime the metal. Now the paint is peeling in a few locations...I did dip the chassis into blackening liquid, the areas which has been milled or where the paint peeled before painting have retained the paint better because of the etching effect. In view of this I'm going to take the loco to a friend of mine who is a pro painter for stripping and repainting

 

Regarding the headlights, I'll see what can be done towards removing them - getting the front ones out is easy, trouble are the back ones which are moulded in the cab...tricky, need to summon courage to mill them out... I spent an hour yesterday poring over my Japanese books, more specifically the two volumes of Professor Usui's "The Roots of Steam: Steam Locomotives in Japan 1872 - 1972". Judging from the pictures (most of them from the late 1930's - the books are a treasure!), to be strictly to prototype the loco would have to have all its headlights stripped as most Japanese private railway locos seemed to run most of the time without any headlights whatsoever! The same occurs in pictures which appear on Charles Small's books - locomotives on the Miyazaki Kotsu, Rumoi, Jobu (Nippon Nickel), all without headlights...not only that but most locomotives had headlight brackets/lamp irons both on the boiler and on the footplate, so at a pinch one could justify the presence of three lamps.

 

Cheers NB

Edited November 1, 2016 by Nick_Burman

[kvp]

Most photos or pictures were made during the day, when lamps were not installed. On the other hand, if it was dark, the lamps got lit and installed. Only with electric light (and the installation of small steam powered generators), the lamps could become fixed. I would leave them on, just don't turn them on during the day.

 

ps: You might be aiming for this style:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JGR_Class_860

(check the lamps!)

Edited November 2, 2016 by kvp

[Nick_Burman]

Most photos or pictures were made during the day, when lamps were not installed. On the other hand, if it was dark, the lamps got lit and installed. Only with electric light (and the installation of small steam powered generators), the lamps could become fixed. I would leave them on, just don't turn them on during the day.

 

ps: You might be aiming for this style:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JGR_Class_860

(check the lamps!)

 

Well, Japanese diesels and electrics eventually moved over to a three-lamp arrangement...but I think I'll remove the lower lamps. I did think about repainting them red to represent marker lamps, but it would look weird... getting rid of the front ones is easy - one cut with a jeweller's saw, some filing and that's it. The rear ones will require courage and lots of dexterity with a file...

 

Cheers NB

[kvp]

Imho steam locomotives never used red markers when running forward and even in push-pull service they used two horizontal whites or a single down white for shunting. Red inserts and later dedicated red markers came a bit later. The locomotive on the picture i linked has standard white oil lamps on it. It was taken before the jgr coupler change.

 

I wouldn't remove the lights, just paint them black.

[marknewton]

It's funny Nick, I was looking at "Rails to the Rising Sun" and thinking there were some good examples of engines on private railways with headlights! :) The Onahama Rinko engine on page 35, the Toya Tetsudo engines on page 36 and the Nippon Soda engine on page 110 were what I was thinking of. Rumoi No.15 finished its days with a headlight as well.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45032366@N05/27798937641

 

Professor Usui's books sound interesting though, what can you tell me about them?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

Edited November 2, 2016 by marknewton

[marknewton]

Most photos or pictures were made during the day, when lamps were not installed. On the other hand, if it was dark, the lamps got lit and installed. Only with electric light (and the installation of small steam powered generators), the lamps could become fixed. I would leave them on, just don't turn them on during the day.

We should distinguish between headlights used to illiuminate the track during the night, and headlamps, used to display headcodes during the nights to indicate the type of train the loco was pulling. The loco in your photo is carrying headlamps to display a headcode. By the time electric lighting became available for use on locos the use of headcodes had been discontinued.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

Imho steam locomotives never used red markers when running forward and even in push-pull service they used two horizontal whites or a single down white for shunting.

The Imperial Japanese Government Railway used red headlamps on the locos when running forward at night. A single headlamp showing a red light was mounted on the righthand lamp iron to denote a regular train on single track lines, two headlamps showing red were mounted left and right to denote a regular train on double track lines, and the locos on push-pull trains carried a single red headlamp on the lefthand lamp iron when pulling the train.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[kvp]

So the arrangement is ok, but the color was red instead of clear. The linked photo shows one lamp up and one on the right (the UK code for express meat or fish). What did it mean in Japan?

 

ps: This is an interesting paint (red frame with headlamp): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Ikasa_Railway_Type_1.jpg

[Nick_Burman]

So the arrangement is ok, but the color was red instead of clear. The linked photo shows one lamp up and one on the right (the UK code for express meat or fish). What did it mean in Japan?

 

ps: This is an interesting paint (red frame with headlamp): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Ikasa_Railway_Type_1.jpg

 

AFAIK the loco only got painted like this when it was retired.

 

Cheers NB

[Nick_Burman]

Well, after a deep breath, this is the situation as of lunchtime today:

 

 

 

 

Now the loco will need a complete repaint...

 

 

Cheers NB

[ToniBabelony]

Looking good! More geniune! I'd suggest completely stripping the paint off the shell and redoing it all with a coat of primer.

 

Also, Nankai still runs trains with red lights forward I noticed today, but that's a bit off topic here.

[Nick_Burman]

OK, all sides done but...help, what does one use to strip the paint used on Arnold locos??? I tried dunking it in paint remover, no results; isopropyl alcohol, nichts... help!

 

 

Cheers NB

[kvp]

Imho brake oil, but only on metal shells as it dissolves most plastics.

[Nick_Burman]

Imho brake oil, but only on metal shells as it dissolves most plastics.

 

Thanks - the shell is solid white metal, so it might just work...

 

Cheers Nb

[cteno4]

Power steering fluid as well works and can work with many plastics as well (but always test!)

 

Jeff