JR East E4: Tomix or Kato?

[CaptOblivious]

Time to warm up the flame-throwers!

 

I'm about to purchase an E4 shinkansen, and I wanted to know people's opinion about whether I should purchase Tomix or Kato.

 

I don't know much about the differences, but here is what I do know. Unfortunately, it's not much, and isn't enough to make a decision on...

 

1) DCC: Kato's takes the EM13, which while easier to install, is harder to get ahold of. I'm not afraid of soldering irons, but I also don't know what to expect from the Tomix model.

2) Cases: Why is it that you can get a full 8-car consist from Tomix, but only a 6-car case?

3) Nose Couplers: the Kato nose coupler actually opens and closes like the prototype; the Tomix one is a cap that snaps on and off.

4) Inter-car diaphragms: From photos on the internet, the Kato diaphragms look more prototypical...but I can't tell if that means it looks better.

 

So...what do you think?

[Guest bill937ca]

Well at least you'll be ordering the model after it's on the market.  Here's a timeline on the introduction of the Tomix and Kato models.

 

http://jmtn.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/when-will-the-kato-e4-shinakansen-be-released/

 

I've experienced delivery delays on new Kato models and heard of Japanese dealers complaining that Kato delivering only 70-80% of the reservations on popular items.  One thing to remember, Kato is only a family business.  Tomix is part of a very large toy corporation.

[CaptOblivious]

I have to admit, I never understood why Doug is so down on Kato all the time...

[Bernard]

Here is another one of those "Gee, I didn't know that!" I never knew Kato was a family business. I thought it was like Tomy (Tomix) but bigger when it comes to model trains. I know Tomy manufactures other toys and I think Kato does just trains.

 

I find that Tomix and Kato are very similar. I do believe that Kato is still manufactured in Japan where recently Tomix is made in China. On a personal note, I prefer installing a decoder in a Kato train than a Tomix. So all things being equal, I tend to go with Kato. It looks like a really nice set you're going to purchase CaptO. Have fun with it.

[Guest bill937ca]

Here is another one of those "Gee, I didn't know that!" I never knew Kato was a family business. I thought it was like Tomy (Tomix) but bigger when it comes to model trains. I know Tomy manufactures other toys and I think Kato does just trains.

 

I find that Tomix and Kato are very similar. I do believe that Kato is still manufactured in Japan where recently Tomix is made in China. On a personal note, I prefer installing a decoder in a Kato train than a Tomix. So all things being equal, I tend to go with Kato. It looks like a really nice set you're going to purchase CaptO. Have fun with it.

 

I looked at my Kato trains.  It does not say where they are made, at least it does not say in English.  I can't read Kaniji.  It says the paper insert is printed in Japan, but that does not mean the model is made in Japan.  Kato has plants in Japan but again that does not mean all production is in Japan. I'd be very surprised if none of Kato's production is done in China.

 

What happens with family companies like Kato is that they create a plan and stick with the plan no matter how strong the demand.  Stepping up production increases the risk--whether that's financial or direct competition.  Kato has been described as being an risk averse operation.

 

Both Green Max and Tomix tell you the country of origin on their packaging in English.  Tomix also tells you that the items are cast out of ABS plastic which is harder than styrene and requires expensive molds to create the model. Up to 10% of Tomix's documentation is in English, but very little of Kato is English.

 

Japanese catalogs have been described as a record of what has been made, what is available and what will be available in the future.  From what I've read more of Tomix's catalog product line generally is available than Kato's.

 

Kato has a showroom in Tokyo and another in Osaka for anyone heading to Japan.

 

Here's some photos:

 

http://rides.webshots.com/album/94748204VzPOtf

 

Kato Hobby Center pages:

 

http://www.katomodels.com/shop/hctokyo_e.shtml

 

http://www.katomodels.com/shop/hcosaka_e.shtml

[Guest bill937ca]

For those who want to read more about Kato here is a Japanese language Wikipedia page.  You will need a machine translator.  If the Japanese Wikipedia pages are of interest I post more links later on model trains, private railways, etc.

 

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%96%A2%E6%B0%B4%E9%87%91%E5%B1%9E

 

The name of the company that owns Kato is Sekisui Kinzoku Co., Ltd.  I understand Kato itself is a separate company as well as a brand.

[alpineaustralia]

Hey guys,

I have a Kato E4 with Kato decoders (29-351, 29-352 and 29-353). With the LED lights and the like, it looks great.  I have tracked the speed that it can reach and it comes to a scale speed of about 291km/hr (ie 1.24m per 2.45 seconds). 

 

Whilst I cannot say I have seen the Tomix, I am fairly happy with the Kato. All eight cars come out to over a metre in length and so I was not fussed with having the extra cars.  Especially with the llimited space that I have. For me the main attraction of Kato was the fact that it was DCC ready and that the decoders were not that hard to get if you are happy to get have them sent from the USA.

 

As for the prototypical nose, this is the one thing which I thought would be great before I got the train but which has proven to be more trouble that it is worth.  The nose pops off easily and is very difficult to get back on. It also works its way loose. Having said this, I think the detail and the quality of the train is very good overall.

 

Alpineaustralia

[CaptOblivious]

Where did you purchase your decoders? I have to admit that at this point I'm leaning towards the Kato for the ease of DCC-ification alone, as no-one has managed to produce a good reason otherwise...

[Martijn Meerts]

Well, to get you a bit more uncertain again...

 

You have to look at what you want out of your decoders in the longer run. For example, I'm going exclusively for Lenz Gold Mini's (I have a selectrix as well, but that one will be replaced eventually.) The reason for this is the good amount of functionality. The Kato decoders are actually very limited if it comes to what they can do. On the other hand, plug & play decoders are quite nice =)

[CaptOblivious]

The one thing I like about the Kato decoders is that, being Digitrax, they support transponding, a feature that I currently have no use for, but that will be handy for my computer-automated blind staging yards...one day...maybe 5 years from now. They do at least support BEMF, which is always nice. I'm not too worried about bells and whistles (metaphorically!) at least not yet.

 

Anyway, I went with the Kato, as you might have guessed. The nose-couplers are darned fiddly, but I am overall very satisfied. Thanks for all the input, folks!

 

Here's a photo I took on my floor layout...

[Guest bill937ca]

 

 

Here's a photo I took on my floor layout...

 

Nice effect Capitan Oblivious!

[alpineaustralia]

Hey Bill

Try Model Train Warehouse (a US based online store).

They dont sell overeas as you can see from the email thread below:

In fact they wouldnt even allow me to pay for the deocoders from Australia with a recognised credit card.

They have 29-351 decoders at about $29.95 each and 29-353 decoders for $14.95.

email address is

 

http://modeltrainwarehouse.3dcartstores.com/

 

Cheers mate.

____________________________________

 

March 29th, 2008 1:40pm MT

 

Based on you current email and the attempts you have made to purchase the items you should probably contact Kato USA directly.  Their phone number is found on their web-site.  It may not work outside of the US, so in that case you need to email them and direct the email to their Sales Department  Perhaps they would sell to you direct.

 

Sales Department

Model Train Warehouse

 

----- Original Message -----

To: 'Sales Department - Model Train Warehouse'

Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 8:45 PM

Subject: RE: Order Inquiry

 

 

Yes, sorry about that. I appear to have accidentally typed “com.su” rather than “com.au” when I placed the order.

This is really disappointing. I cant say I really understand why but I accept your position all the same.

I am having real problems sourcing the Kato decoders that I ordered from you (ie. Kato 29-352 and Kato 29-353).

I tried ordering off the Kato USA website but it refers you to a shop in Germany and shop in Brazil, both of which don’t stock these items.

 

I tried ordering off the Kato Japan website but the order form page is entirely in Japanese – I don’t speak, read or write Japanese.

 

What is the rule or policy that is the problem? Eg. Is it a problem with being paid by a foreign credit card ? Is it a rule applied as part of your distribution agreement with Kato etc etc?

 

You say that you do not accept orders from outside of the United States under any circumstances. For example, is there a problem if the order is sourced by my friend in the US ?

 

Can you help me out in any way?

 

Kind regards

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Sales Department - Model Train Warehouse [mailto:sales@modeltrainwarehouse.com]

Sent: Saturday, 29 March 2008 1:45 AM

Subject: Re: Order Inquiry

 

March 28th, 2008 8:40am MT

In reference to your email below about your order status.

We tried to contact you 2 times via email on 3/24/08.  Both times your email address came back rejected.

One was sent at 3:41pm MT on 3/24/08 the other at 3:53pm MT on 3/24/08.

We hope that this one reaches you.

Sorry, but we do not accept orders from outside of the United States under any circumstances.  This includes orders that the customer wishes to have shipped to point inside the United States.

You may wish to contact Kato directly for a listing of their International Dealers or go to their web-sites dealer listings.

(www.katousa.com)

 

Sales Department

Model Train Warehouse

 

----- Original Message -----

 

To: sales@modeltrainwarehouse.com

Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 8:21 AM

Subject: Model Train Warehouse - Hobbies R Fun : Contact Form

 

I noticed that my order (Order SI-9096) for delivery to my friend in Redmond WA, USA, was cancelled. Is there a problem with my order?

[alpineaustralia]

Like you work mate.

I have an also E4 and inclined track but am having no end of trouble with derailments as the angle changes between tracks. Do you have this problem ?  Are you using Kato track and piers - your piers look distinctly non-Kato-ish.

Love the background photo.

[CaptOblivious]

I'm using Tomix track. I did have one small problem: A 280mm radius viaduct curve leading directly into a truss bridge = BAD. Otherwise, the only iffy part is an S-curve made of two 280mm radius viaduct curves, but it only caused a derailment because I had reassembled (I love to take things apart and see how they work) the motor car incorrectly, and one of the trucks was binding. Other than that, no problem. The E4 even seems OK on 243mm radius non-viaduct curves (although it will not handle 243mm radius viaduct curves). The grade changes pose no problem for me.

[Guest bill937ca]

The E4 even seems OK on 243mm radius non-viaduct curves (although it will not handle 243mm radius viaduct curves). The grade changes pose no problem for me.

 

Is that because of car overhang?

[CaptOblivious]

Yes. On the 280mm radius viaduct curves, the sides of the cars almost but not quite scrap the inside railing. I don't have a 243mm radius viaduct to confirm, but really, it's so close on the 280 that I can't imagine it working.

 

If a 280mm curve of any sort feeds directly into a truss bridge, the outside leading edge of each car becomes snagged on the truss, leading to derailment or worse.

[Guest bill937ca]

Here is another one of those "Gee, I didn't know that!" I never knew Kato was a family business.

 

I find that Tomix and Kato are very similar. I do believe that Kato is still manufactured in Japan where recently Tomix is made in China.

 

I have been doing some research over the last few days.  I have found as far back as 2000 Kato (and Tomix) were  manufacturing trains in China.  This is nothing new.  The driver: rising costs in Japan.

[Guest bill937ca]

Time to warm up the flame-throwers!

 

I'm about to purchase an E4 shinkansen, and I wanted to know people's opinion about whether I should purchase Tomix or Kato.

 

I don't know much about the differences, but here is what I do know. Unfortunately, it's not much, and isn't enough to make a decision on...

 

So...what do you think?

 

Another fact that I learned was that Tomix runs noisy on pulse power as with MRC power packs.  The complaints of noisy running disappear when Tomix are run on Tomix power packs.  But to use a Tomix power pack requires a step down converter as Japanese mains draw less power than North American mains.  Some Tomix trains also have constant lighting which uses AC power to keep the lights on.  I believe pulse power is a 1950s solution to jack-rabbit starts and with these being Japanese trains (and Japanese electronics being what it is) this is not 1950s technology in the Tomix trains and TCS power packs.  I have to do a little more research on pulse power....

[CaptOblivious]

Good point, Bill. I imagine the Kato model works OK with pulse power, although it does sound like crap on my Zephyr throttle (without decoder)—like it is going to vibrate to pieces. Worse than my other Kato locos.

 

As it happens, I do have a Tomix power pack, so that wouldn't have been an issue anyway, but good to know. In US, you shouldn't need a step-down converter, if your house wiring is in good condition (and good luck finding one anway! I looked all over!). The difference between 100VAC (Japan) and 115VAC (US) is minimal, and in fact, I get about 110VAC in my apartment. Well within reasonable tolerances. At that difference, the current it draws is immaterial, as long as its less than the breaker on the circuit its plugged into ;)—and it is, much less in fact. Just don't leave it plugged in overnight, as, not being UL-listed, if something bad does happen—very unlikely, but possible—and it catches your house on fire, your insurance won't cover it.

[Guest bill937ca]

Yup, I never leave my Tomix power pack plugged in.    ;)  I learned that before I purchased it.

[Darklighter]

Hi,

what's the height of the E4 (N Gauge)? It looks tall, but on the other hand the pantographs seem to be tiny.

 

And what do you think, the roof of which model looks more prototypical, Kato or Tomix? The roof of the Tomix E4 seems to be less detailed, but as far as I know the silver (ventilation?) parts on the roof of the Kato E4 don't look prototypical either...