Quality issues - Greenmax Plasser & Theurer Tie Tamper

[velotrain]

I'm curious if this unit is on par with other Greenmax trains?  The design and QC certainly seems much lower than Kato or Tomix.  Maybe I'll stick to Greenmax structures.

[Das Steinkopf]

I don't own any of the earlier Greenmax models and I have no intention of getting them, I do have the new KiHa 75 with the new chassis and I can't fault it, it is a nice model that runs smoothly and it was easy to swap out the headlight module and couplings as I want to run it as a 2 car unit rather than a 4 car consist, I am even tempted to buy another power chassis and headlight modules when they become available so I can have 2 motorised 2 car sets.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Das Steinkopf

[cteno4]

All my green max run fine. A couple required a little lubing at one point,mbut that's true for all manufacturers in my experience. I think it's looking like the one run had some issues and poor qc...

 

Jeff

[Edo-San]

Received an reply from Hobby Search about the faulty item.

If I was a local in Japan, it would be easier, I walk into in their office and they would send to the manufacturer.

I am down in Oz, I would need to pay the international postage/freight back to Hobby Search to have the item replaced.

Or I can keep the faulty item and received 5000 Hobby Search points as compensation for the defect.

I will need to go to local post office to get cost to send back to Japan, then respond to their email.

[velotrain]

Perhaps see if another Aussie modeler is going to Japan soon, and would be willing to visit HS for you?

 

If they're not into Japanese models now, they might be when they return!

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I finally tried mine tonight. I am sorry to report it is utter garbage. The finish is poor and the motor had become detached and was rattling around inside the body. I thought something was amiss when the motorised section freely rolled down the railer onto the track! I could not easily remove the body (call that failed) as it appears to have been glued down at one end. In any event, the motor housing looks shoddy (so no huge surprise it fell out) and the bogie assembly is highly suspect...one of the trailing wheels dropped out almost immediately.

 

I gave up, put it in its box and will contact Hobby Search tomorrow to return. And to think, one shop is listing this Grade A piece of junk in the UK for £150.00!

 

Very, very disappointed to say the least. I am not sure how much damage GM have done to their reputation with this, but what a spectacular missed opportunity.

[velotrain]

 I could not easily remove the body (call that failed) as it appears to have been glued down at one end.

 

Speaking of which, could someone who has successfully removed the body provide some guidance?

 

 

P.S. - and how do you really feel about it?

[Das Steinkopf]

Charles, I have only pulled apart the material wagon but I suspect removing the body of the tamper would be similar, I had a quick check of mine a think that you basically have to gently ply the sides open and unclip it from tabs located in the cabs, the tabs like a lot of models are latching onto the glazing which also ensures they remain in their positions.

 

Overall I am not overly impressed with the whole release saga of this model, for something that was continualy delayed due to production issues and when it was finally released suffers from poor quality control is not good enough, the 4710 and one of the 4709's Edo_San and myself recieved are fine but the other 4709 should not have left the factory considering the condition it was in. When you look at the quality issues that people have had it is not just one issue it is multiple, whether it's shorted out lighting boards, poorly constructed motors, loose electrical pickups or wheels that fall out it's just not good enough, the quality control is very hit and miss with way too many lemons making their way out of the factory. The model itself is a decent model of a unique piece of equipment and if your'e lucky enough to get one that is issue free then it is a model certainly worth having, but if you happen to be one of unlucky ones to receive one of the dodgy units then it certainly leaves a sour taste in one's mouth.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

How I really feel is disappointment. As Steinkopf says, this has been significantly delayed, so the complete lack of quality control is not really good enough. It had such great potential, and with the yellow example, a market far beyond Japan. I am amazed Greenmax have chucked this opportunity away.

 

I have emailed HS, but even if they send a replacement, I'll still get stung for import duty again.

[velotrain]

I have emailed HS, but even if they send a replacement, I'll still get stung for import duty again.

 

Not to mention return shipping on the original . . . .

[katoftw]

I would take the 5000 yen in points.

[Edo-San]

I will send back the faulty item to Hobby Search, who will in turn pass on to Greenmax office, who in turn pass on to their Quailty Control section in the back room, (passing the buck) and work out what went wrong with this particular item. Thanks to Das Steinkopf in finding what may be the fault, lets see when the faulty item finally makes it way to the work bench of Greenmax, if they come to the same conclusion, this should give a wake up call to quality control that no item goes to out the factory door unless all the boxes are ticked - how else are they going to know, unless they are part of this forum and reading this thread.

[kvp]

There is a slight chance they just put it on a shelf and ship out a new, untested box. The result could be getting an item in a worse condition.

 

A faulty led or dislodged pickup could be fixed easily and would cost way less with minimal danger of ending up with something worse.

 

ps: modern chinese manufacturing often doesn't include any control and relies on sellers simply throwing out bad items

[Das Steinkopf]

KVP, if you have a look at the photo I have attached to this thread earlier you would see it is not just the LED that needs replacing but also the housing as it has melted the casing badly when it shorted out.

[kvp]

Sorry i forgot about that, then i might try to get official papers for the return so at least the import tax could be avoided.

 

ps: Is there any chance to get replacement parts from the seller without returning the set? It would be cheaper for everyone.

[Edo-San]

I have received the faulty product from Greenmax via Hobby Search today. Whilst in the Greenmax workshop, 'they have replaced the LED and they found a glitch in the engine system' as quoted in an email from Hobby Search.

 

Have done a quick test, the lights are working in both directions - forward and reverse. I will look inside the light housing area later.

[Das Steinkopf]

Nice to hear, I was going to give you a buzz and see what was happening there.

[cteno4]

Sorry i have neglected to followup here with my units. My yellow 4709 came fine and worked out of the box. it does growl quite a bit and it looked pretty dry. tried a quick application of a little heavy oil on the truck gears and it did quiet down some. i want to pull it apart and do a better overall lube and see how that works. the lights do come on pretty strong, but when run slow its not horrid unless complete darkness then you see the shine thru. had fast speeds it does begin slow. i plan to do two things, paint the inside with white tulip paint (the thick acrylic tee shirt paint that really does a great job of light sealing) and also probably replacing the current led with a couple of smd resistors in better spots along with a smd variable resistor to try to the brightness as desired.

 

Unfortunately the 4710 came with the motor dislodged. the little metal plate is visible in the window it popped off in transit it appears. I will need to pop it open and get it reset and maybe look to see if there is any way to better keep it in place.

 

A little bummed it came not working but seems simple enough to fix. Led issue can in my case be easily tuned to what i want. All in all for the price and with the dearth of MOW equipment i am very happy to have these even with the flaws. They are fixable for me, im sure others wont be wanting or willing to do that. I dont plan to run these a lot or fast so the speed and sound issue is not so bad. I may also add a capacitor in there to help the motor a little on points and maybe a tad of weight as now and then it did a little stutter on points. but many light odd trains like this have the issue so some tantalum bricks hopefully will give it the little nudge.

 

Detail is decent and crisp, better than the tomytec usual. paint is decent. will need a little weathering to be the usual little bit of dinge on mow, even japanese ones. 

 

its unfortunate that Greenmax had a few issues here in the design and their quality control. It seems an odd beast for them so can see how it could happen. good thing is it looks like they are into doing more mow!

 

anyway my assessment of it.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[cteno4]

I have received the faulty product from Greenmax via Hobby Search today. Whilst in the Greenmax workshop, 'they have replaced the LED and they found a glitch in the engine system' as quoted in an email from Hobby Search.

 

Have done a quick test, the lights are working in both directions - forward and reverse. I will look inside the light housing area later.

 

wonder what the motor glitch was? the loose motor mount?

 

jeff

[Edo-San]

wonder what the motor glitch was? the loose motor mount?

 

jeff

I am unsure what was the motor glitch. From memory when the unit was being test run at Dave's house, it was a jerky at first, like most models, then it settled down and ran smoothly after a few laps of the oval track.

 

Okay, to the main fault, I have opened up the housing of the light section of the materials wagon (following Dave's instructions), looks like they have replaced the whole board.

[GeorgeHInch]

I'm looking at the re-release of this and wondering if they made any upgrades to the production. Might still order either way with HobbySearch having it listed under $100. 

 

Mainly curious if anyone took the plunge and added DCC to theirs? Looks like there is a ton of open space inside so adding a decoder shouldn't be hard but would love to hear if anyone had.

[Sheffie]

I bought one about a year ago and I’d say it’s easily my worst runner. The noise is terrible and the power pickup makes the lights flicker constantly. The lights themselves are insufficiently shielded, and the effect is that the cab has a pair of cartoon eyes inside it. This product, considering its price, is the main reason I hesitate to recommend greenmax trains. 

[cteno4]

I definitely would not judge all greenmax by the tamper. I have a number of regular greenmax trains and no issues like this and their new regular train power chassis purr along nicely. The tamper was sort of an odd beast I think for them and they didn’t do a fantastic job on the mechanics and lighting, but they can me improved.

 

yes there is a bit of space in there and pretty simple pickup system from what I remember remounting my motor.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[JR 500系]

I have the Tamper and is actually quite pleased with it... The motor runs very smoothly (albiet a little loud) and is designed for low speed running, much like a maintenance train. Only issue i have is that it doesn't have traction rubber tyres, meaning i cant get the tamper up my inclined tracks, which i think could be solved if i install some rubber traction tyre to the wheels... 

 

I agree the lighting could have been done better, it is a little too bright and it bleeds though the thin shell quite a fair bit... Most GM models also encounter this issue, whereby the body shell seems a little thinner and light gets bleed over... This can again, be easily solved by adding insulation or aluminium foil on the insides of the body when installing lights so that the lights doesn't get bleed out ~

 

All in all, i do agree with what Jeff had mentioned, please do not judge all GM models based on the tamper... Most of them are VERY good runners (some are my best runners) and they have very unique models not available by other makers.... 

[GeorgeHInch]

Interesting feedback. Based on the photos on the first page it looks like it should be pretty easy to solder a higher rated resistor in place of the ones on the board which might reduce it to a normal level. The hardest part for DCC I think would be running a common power through the two cars.