LED Strips.

[Sascha]

Hello Guys. I want to put lights in my 3 Kato island platforms. Nariichi told me to use LED Strips. Are these the right ones? And if yes, should I use cool or warm white light? What else would I need?How many LEDs per meter should I use?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-5050-SMD-60-LEDs-Warm-Cool-White-RGB-Flexible-Strip-Light-12V-Power-Supply-1-/381608170076?var=&hash=item58d99e925c:m:mZcYW-pGUuiHhKoOw6lhXrA

Edited July 19, 2016 by Sascha

[kvp]

You can use almost any type of 12V DC leds. Warm white is similar to bulb lights, while cold white is similar to neon lights. Non waterproof is easier to solder to and smaller (due to not having an isolating cover). You can use any number of leds for a roof, but 12V types tend to be in units of 3 that have to be used together.

 

One small advice though: getting a 12V PWM led strip dimmer is a good idea if you don't want the leds to be way too bright.

[cteno4]

Sasha,

Yep you can find them cheap on ebay along with 12v transformers and the dimmers (search led dimmers) as kvp mentioned. Definitely want to play with dimming them as usually it will be way way to bright. I played with some of these cheap ones years ago when these started hitting the market and one of the cheap ones did have memory so when powered off it powered back on at your set dimming level, you need to check on this and/or experiment with some as you don't want to be resetting them all the time. Using a pwm source like kvp mentioned is also a way to dim them, but you need a separate One for each thing you want to dim. You can also dim them some by cutting the voltage back, but this only goes so far and then they just don't light at all.

The cool white is more like fluorescent lighting and the warm is more like older incandescent lighting, the colors can vary some supplier to supplier.

I found trying to put the strips in things a pain. The size is generally about 1/4-1/2" wide and about 2" long for a 3 led set.

If you don't mind a little soldering and wiring I much prefer just using wired smd LEDs and then using resistors or variable resistors to set the lighting levels on each lamp individually. It's more work, but a lot more flexible in how you mount them, where you put them, size, brightness etc. the smd LEDs in the strips are the big ones 1210 and greater in size. You can buy much smaller 402, 603, 804 smd LEDs for like a penny a piece and solder leads on them--this is tedious as they are tiny, but with practice you can get pretty fast at it. Or you can buy them with micro wire or magnet wire already soldered on on ebay for 10-30 cents each. Not as cheap as the strips if you buy them prewired but a lot more flexible in the install.

I played with making a little hanging long thin light with 4 of the smd LEDs in a 2" piece of plastic channel stock. I glued the smd LEDs and wires in the channel stock and then filled the channel with semi clear gallery glass (it's an acrylic paste/paint that makes fake stained glass). This diffuesed the light some nicely. Intention was to hang these under the platform roofs. I'll try to find it and take some Picts. Also played with having the channel stock have holes in it where the light is to come out and mound the LEDs over the holes. Then the channel hides and carries the wires. Then over the holes mound some square or round silver sequins over the holes to look like regular reflectors.

Small trim pots are very cheap to add to each led to dim them to just the right level. You can get them in as small as 3x3mm smd units for keeping things small. Makes for some more wiring but getting things just right with lighting makes all the difference!

Anyhow if you are adventurous you might play with some of these parts, they can be had very cheaply on ebay to mess with a bit and experiment. 30g wrapping wire is great stuff to use to wire LEDs as its very thin, flexible and cheap and it's pretinned so strips well (stripping fine wire usually breaks some strands if not careful). Magnet wire works as well, but is a bit more of a challenge to work with burning off insulation and reinsulatinf where necessary.

There are a few threads on the forum of folks using led strips and I think kens did a good bit using on his platforms and the challenges and his solutions.

Cheers

Jeff

Edited July 19, 2016 by cteno4

[kvp]

An example of the single leds wired up by hand using pre tinned solid copper wire techique: (but i think the self adhesive 3 led sub strips would work just fine too) The main feed cables going down below the surface are simple grey ribbon cables.

[cteno4]

Nicely done kvp. gives nice spacing and good look. nice how in daylight having the lights on can focus the attention some on the platform like that. only rub is ive found to make things look good lit in daylight you need to turn them up compared to what looks good in the dark!

 

ive wanted to try just soldering 1210 leds across parallel stiff wire and wiring them in parallel as well. then just run the wire down the uprights separately painted gray as a conduit individually for the Kato platforms. nice thing about the 1210 leds is they are like a 1' square box about 4"high scale with the led inset some in the center of the box, so they look like a square ceiling light fixture. w/o any fiddling.

 

I need to dig out the Kato platform lighting stuff i was doing a number of years back, i got sidetracked!

 

jeff

[cteno4]

some of the past threads

 

the idea above of the rods with parallel smd leds

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/10988-kato-platform-lighting/

 

kens blog

 

http://www.sumidacrossing.org/LayoutElectricity/LEDStrips/

 

quintopia's blog

 

http://quinntopia.blogspot.com/2010/12/lighting-for-buildings-part-1-pre-wired.html

 

http://quinntopia.blogspot.com/2010/12/lighting-for-buildings-part-2-solder.html

 

other threads

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/6679-my-japanese-n-scale-diorama-reset-wip-20-completed/page-3

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/8613-going-japanese/page-20?do=findComment&comment=134550

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/1950-sumida-crossing/page-8?do=findComment&comment=43696

 

cheers

 

jeff

[railsquid]

Excellent timing, got me a canopied platform which needs wiring up...

[nartak]

Ordinary LED strip may be difficult to put on platform roof as the width is quite wide.
I used very thin LED strip for platform at my shop so no hassle with soldering SMD.

Please see the photo for comparison and actual installation.

[utrainia]

I used very thin LED strip for platform at my shop so no hassle with soldering SMD.

Wow, I had no idea you could get thin LED strips. Very useful. Where did you buy it from?

[cteno4]

yeah i have not seen any that thin! where did you get them Nariichi? they look to be like 4mm wide!

 

jeff

[Sascha]

Dang. Lots of info I have to read. I'll appreciate y'alls input!!! Guess I'll can start next month. Thanks again!!!

[cteno4]

Sasha,

 

take a look on ebay, you can find most all the parts (except those ultra thin strips nariichi has, never seen those on ebay!) really cheap and great thing to fiddle with and experiment with a while before you do your final installs.

 

soldering sounds hard to many, but its pretty easy, its all about practice, lots of tutorials on youtube to help and a great skill to learn and hone with practice. stuff is so cheap on ebay that a couple of bucks will give you plenty to practice and experiment on. yell if you want some links to bit on ebay.

 

jeff

[Sascha]

I used to solder back in school, and if i remember correct, it was very easy. I'll see if Nariichi san sells the thin ones.

[nartak]

Wow, I had no idea you could get thin LED strips. Very useful. Where did you buy it from?

 

 

yeah i have not seen any that thin! where did you get them Nariichi? they look to be like 4mm wide!

 

jeff

 

It is 2.5mm in width.

I found this in LED shop in Akihabara.

http://www.akiba-led.jp/product/1213

[railsquid]

It is 2.5mm in width.

I found this in LED shop in Akihabara.

http://www.akiba-led.jp/product/1213

 

Thanks, I found that shop the other week but didn't have much time, I'll go and have another look.

[gavino200]

A question for those who have soldered individual SMDs to light covered platforms. Would you do it again, now that these 2.5 mm strips are available? Or would you go with the strips?

[kvp]

I did and i would not use the large strips, but the smaller ones might be good as a quick alternative. My only problem is placement and led type as you can't control where the leds will be. The last arrangement i built has one led every few cm-s in two rows (3x2x2=12 for each platform section) and uses wide angle leds to cover a larger area. Getting a strip that does exactly this is hard and cutting up a 5V single led strip and connecting up the pieces might even be more work than soldering the leds to the brass rods (stripped long pcb connector pins) that form the frame for the lights. (the rods allow the leds to wrap around various roof parts while also supplying them with power)

 

[gavino200]

I did and i would not use the large strips, but the smaller ones might be good as a quick alternative. My only problem is placement and led type as you can't control where the leds will be. The last arrangement i built has one led every few cm-s in two rows (3x2x2=12 for each platform section) and uses wide angle leds to cover a larger area. Getting a strip that does exactly this is hard and cutting up a 5V single led strip and connecting up the pieces might even be more work than soldering the leds to the brass rods (stripped long pcb connector pins) that form the frame for the lights. (the rods allow the leds to wrap around various roof parts while also supplying them with power)

 

 

 

I like this idea. Any chance you could post a picture of the underside of the platform roof?

[kvp]

I like this idea. Any chance you could post a picture of the underside of the platform roof?

I have to dig it out and take a picture (the operational modules are packed away right now) as i forgot to photograph the build, but if everything happens according to plan, i'll have time to do it sometime this week.

[cteno4]

Gavin,

 

This is the problem with the platforms as the strips have set distances between the leds and that may not match up well with the platform roof. Also the signs get in the way some and can affect the placement. Most of the 12v strips have them in 3 led chunks (usually about 1.65 cm led to led) so you can cut them in units of three and do some jumper wires between the sets of three to snake around various roof bits. Nariichi's new 2.5mm wide strips would be great for this as they are twice as dense as most led strips at 120 leds per m, so the leds are 8.3mm apart. But as kvp mentioned it's work to solder jumpers on the small strips.

 

https://www.modeltrainplus.net/collections/modeltrainplus/products/m-lite-tl081212wh-led-strip-2-5mm-width-1meter

 

I got 1210 leds to play with the idea kvp mentioned

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100PCS-POWER-TOP-SMD-SMT-White-PLCC-2-3528-1210-Super-Bright-Light-LED-/112140624877?hash=item1a1c1a23ed:g:5v8AAOSwmLlX3qY4

 

These are about 1.5' square so like a light fixture would be and large enough to solder to easily. Use some flexible wire for each side and you can solder up a bunch at whatever spacing you want and run the wires around signs etc.

 

Instead of a brass rod you can use thin bus wire which is uninsulared wire like is on the end of resistors or strip some solid core telephone wire. It's very flexible and just have to make sure the two wired don't short I how you run them.

 

Again like jr500 mentions you want to run these at very low current to not have the platform glow!

 

Also when running leds in parallel like this you do run the risk one is a little off and can draw more current than the others leading to it burning out. Constant current source can help using something like an Lm334m to keep constant current. You can adjust these to the current you want via a resistor or even a pot to vary it. Also you can use from like 5-20v in with this chip.

 

Other option is to solder a drop resistor on one side of each led in the parallel circuit so current is limited for each led individually.

 

I've always wanted to light our large Shinkansen station platforms as even I decet lighting The station platforms feel dark at any distance and the figures not as noticable, so just a bit of light might make them pop a lot even in daylight running.

 

Jeff

[Eurostar25]

I can certainly vouch for using Nariichi sans LED strips and they're really good. I glued mine to the kato canopy which may or may not hold over time but will see. The effect is exactly what I was after.

 

[locidm]

What kind of glue should I be using to glue wires and leds?

[cteno4]

With the strips you would need to test with some common adhesives as it has a sticky peel off adhesive back, but some have had these pop off with time, but I'm guessing a general plastic cement would work or ca glue on the adhesive and it set the whole thing up well.

 

For bare wired leds then ca should work fine or probably even small dabs of hot glue on the wires ever cm or so and clean up as these could easily be popped off later if needed.

 

Jeff

[locidm]

Thank you Jeff. Is CA glue the same as super glue? 

[gavino200]

What kind of glue should I be using to glue wires and leds?

 

I've been asking Narichi about these. He recommends hot glue gun. That makes sense. It sticks really well but comes off easily too with no damage.