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Edited January 29, 2017 by nxcale

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Edited January 29, 2017 by nxcale

[cteno4]

Great hack nxcale! Going to have to remeber that one when I get deeper into ardunio! It's great there are bits like this so inexpensive to just experiment with and kitbash and hack up to try things and not have to do everything from scratch!

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

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Edited January 8, 2017 by nxcale

[Khaul]

What a nice thread!

[kvp]

Could you tell us what kind of microcontroller or other permanent memory is used on the flip flop module? The top side only has a diode, a 30mA ldo voltage regulator and an output transistor.

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Edited January 29, 2017 by nxcale

[kvp]

Thanks! The photo shows a 8 legged chip on the back, that looks like a microcontroller, but the label on top of it is not visible. I would guess a microchip PIC or similar. These have a limit on the number of writes to their eeprom, but that limit is large enough. The relay module also has some kind of chip, probably with a similar logic, but no eeprom storage and a relay connected behind the output transistor.

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Edited January 29, 2017 by nxcale

[kvp]

That's an STC microcontroller based on the intel 8051 series. ( http://www.stcmicro.com/STC15F100.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MCS-51 ) Only the E variant has an eeprom, so the basic version has no memory to write the state info to.

 

ps: i find it funny, that for a simple debounced input toggle flip flop functionality, it's cheaper and easier to use a full blown single chip computer that could actually run a full dcc system...

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Edited January 29, 2017 by nxcale

[cteno4]

Excellent as always nxcale! No programming all logic!

 

Jeff

[kvp]

How do you plan to connect and drive the turnouts?

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Edited January 29, 2017 by nxcale

[kvp]

You could put the timer module on the main cdu feeds as in that case, you would only need two or one in case of a double pole relay, only one. It might cause a huge turn on current though, so i would leave them out.

 

The cdu needs a permanent switch. Actually the led feedback could be connected to the same output. This means you can connect the series capacitor and the coil directly to the flip flop relay (and the leds too if one is low active and the other high active). Just make sure the relays can handle the current.

 

ps: The capacitor could be connected on either side of the turnout coil. I usually put them on the ground side next to the turnouts as this minimises the power loss.

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Edited January 29, 2017 by nxcale

[kvp]

The flip flop module should be connected through a relay of course, so the module with the transistor output should only be used to drive a relay, that could select between power and ground for the CDU and the leds.

 

For a route control board, i think you might need either a D (data) or an SR (set-reset) flip-flop instead of a T (toggle). Alternatively, bistable relays could provide both DC (data-clock) and SR functionality without using integrated circuits. (the set-reset is trivial as it uses two inputs, while the data-clock is provided by using an extra morse relay driven by the data signal to select between the two inputs of the set-reset bistable relay and the clock pulse /the route select signal/ to drive the bistable relay)

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Edited January 29, 2017 by nxcale

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Edited January 8, 2017 by nxcale

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[kvp]

Just a remark: Never disconnect the power from a series capacitor circuit as this allows the capacitor to self discharge and if this happens, it won't have enough power to move the turnout when it's discharged normally. If you want to block the control, do it at the input signal (button) side and make sure the capacitor is kept powered or grounded. (also the leds should be connected there too for feedback)

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Edited January 29, 2017 by nxcale

[kvp]

We have used this system this year with our hungarian branchline themed fremo layout. 2 larger stations, one smaller one and a stop was on the route, with the two large stations having tower crews, the smaller one being operated either by a single person or through a jury rigged ctc box from the nearest large station and the stop having a key operated freight loading track and protection signals. Trains operated using a timetable written by IST with each train controlled by a single driver and having to run around (or use a wye at one station) to turn around. (by the end of the 3rd day, most trains running were dmus or push pull sets) Locomotive control was through DCC, station control through everything from electronic to fully mechanical systems. (the dcc locomotive control bus was loconet with fremo spax boosters and fred-i throttles)

 

Imho this could work for analog home or club layouts too. For the analog home layout, just see the video of the excellent japanese style control board reposted a few days ago built eniterly out of relay and diode logic. A system like that could use one controller per loop with rotary cab control switches selecting between controllers for each loop. Full power routing (Tomix style) allows selecting the right controller for the station tracks. For modular layouts, the classic analog fremo style block wiring with walkaround throttles would allow analog locomotives to be followed around. This is actually done by a club in Tokyo, modelling a different irl railway every year by using mostly unsceniced, but fully signalled modules.

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Edited January 29, 2017 by nxcale

[kvp]

What is the name of Japanese club? I would like to check some info.

I think this youtube page belongs to them:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UChzWMi0_a6afS_FRKBFD6YQ