Trying Z Gauge - Again

[Themetropolitainline]

All these are available from Plaza japan via eBay. If you go to plaza japan and the click on Z gauge they have over 250 items in Z. these are just a few of the station related items available,also available are shops, houses, office buildings and many more. All made by Sankei for which i have made a few and are excellent quality items. If your unable to make them because of poor eye site and shaky hands then maybe friends or family would be able to help in that department.Hope this helps

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sankei-MP01-97-Station-C-1-220-Z-scale-/201554935100?hash=item2eed9c3d3c   station

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sankei-MP01-45-Locomotive-House-1-220-Z-scale-/201480311851?hash=item2ee929942b  engine shed

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sankei-MP01-41-Platform-1-220-Z-scale-/201551630870?hash=item2eed69d216   platform

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sankei-MP01-90-Japanese-Temple-1-220-Z-scale-/361457371775?hash=item542889ca7f   temple

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sankei-MP01-127-Flyover-Station-1-220-Z-scale-/351610829447?hash=item51dda37a87 platform crossover bridge

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sankei-MP01-102-Platform-D-Expansion-1-220-Z-scale-/201069320668?hash=item2ed0aa59dc platform extension

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sankei-MP01-112-Tunnel-Entrance-B-1-220-Z-scale-/121312026107?hash=item1c3ec29dfb  tunnel portal

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sankei-MP01-101-Platform-D-1-220-Z-scale-/201233305122?hash=item2eda708e22  platform with cover

[gerryo]

Thank you for these links.  Gives me some idea of what's available as used items.

 

Gerry

[gerryo]

After looking these layouts over for a couple of days, I have come up with a couple of questions.  I have been looking at the Noch ready made layout designs and find that having the option of Z or N on the same layout raises some questions. 

 

To build in Z I would have to purchase everything besides the layout.  I have no Z trains, buildings, track, along with other items.

 

To build in N I already have N trains, some buildings, tons of track, and a severe liking of Japanese stuff.  The only thing to work out is if the Kato N track will fit in the same curves as Fleischmann or other German made N track.

 

So you see, I'm not too sure myself just what I am doing yet.

 

Gerry

Edited May 25, 2016 by gerryo

[kvp]

Some Noch layouts can be used with Kato tracks. A few are officially supported and have downloadable trackplans for Unitrack. For the rest, you have to see yourself.

 

The latter usually involves downloading the official trackplan, copying it into a design software with the original track type and then trying to fit unitrack over the same route. (just be careful about tunnel clearences as extra precision is required there, especially near tunnel portals)

 

Some layouts will be easier to convert while some could be impossible without flextrack.

[cteno4]

Take your time Gerry and think it thru well. You can play with your n stuff on a table(s) easily enough for a temporary layout to get your train fix and continue to fiddle with some ideas. While layout panning software is cool, playing with track can be really valuable and fun at the same time while you suss out all the other things.

 

Z does get you a bit smaller layout, but as you note much more limited selection of trains and structure and all need to be purchased. Going with n though will probably mean not using viaduct or plate track and going with smaller radiuses that shinkansens might not look great on. But if you hide the curves some with buildings and hills and tunnels then might not see as much of the ackward bits.

 

Might also think sectional layout that can come apart when needed for more room or add in extra sections to get big now and then or in a common room or something like that.

 

Also one way of recreating those noch layout boards would be to just use like 3/16" ply for your layout top. Then just use a hand jig/saber saw to cut out the pattern around the elevated portions. They you just use some wood wedges to slowly elevate those table strips to hold the elevated tracks to the needed grades. It's a pretty fast way to make a sturdy base for all the elevated tracks. Then some bits of foam to make hillsides and such and plaster cloth on top/around as needed. Can even skip the foam as well by making cardboard framework for hillsides out of strips and then plaster cloth on top. Might be a way to get you a hybrid layout based on the noch track plans but do it in n. Might not get great Shinkansen lines, but maybe something fun in your space.

 

Another way to maybe get a bit more track into a smaller room with the 2' arm reach limit would be to build a dogbone layout along a wall. This would be a center section that would be long and 2' deep that could be your bus/ station area and then two end sections that are your loop backs and like 3.5' square. The end sections could go into the corner of the room. But make it sectional so each end module could pop off to roll out to work on from all around.

 

Or just think about the whole layout being on a cart and you can roll it next to the wall to run and have more open space in the room and then when you need to work on the back or ends you can roll it so you can get access to those points. Saves a lot of room than having a 2'+ open space all around the layout and let's you make it deeper than your 2' arm reach.

 

Good luck with it all, sure you will find a viable solution!

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

On following up on the track sizes that I talked about earlier, I have found that on the Noch Baden-Baden layout, where there are single track curves, there is a Kato track to fit, and where there are double track curves, there are Kato tracks to fit.  So building this one in N is a good possibility. The base layout is 1750mm long, with 2 extensions, each 690mm long.  Both are 1 meter wide.

 

So Jeff, your rec. about sectional layouts would work with this one.  And there is one more section that makes it interesting, is that the rail storage yard could be placed underneath, with a two track helix up and down to the main layout.

 

The two longest tracks are 430 and 396.5 mm curves so will accommodate my shinkansens and longest special "Romance Car Trains".  I don't know the radii of the helix curves yet so don't know if the shinkansens could go to the yard level.  

 

I'll keep reading,

Gerry

[gerryo]

In case anyone is interested, I have found a 1:350 scale model of the Tokyo station.  It is available from Hobby Search, made by Woody Joe, at the neat price of 68000 Yen, or abt. 616.00 US dollars.  But be sure you want it because once you order it you can't cancel.

 

Too rich for my Z scale layout.

 

Gerry

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

There is a 1/500 printed cardstock model of Tokyo station that is quite detailed, but I think oop now. Could be scanned and enlarged. Would be quite a task though! I have the book and it is quite nicely done. Now with the autocracies and cut ability of the silhouette cutter it may make this a much more doable model!

 

http://www.assiston.co.jp/1460

 

http://plamoya.com/en/classic-station-tokyo-station-paper-craft-p-56217.html

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

From this point on I will have to speak of this layout as an "N" scale one.  I have too much invested in N things to switch them out for Z.  This even means that my trams will work on here and will provide transport between a mountain station and the main station. 

 

I doubt very much that the shinkansens will work on this layout, but I won't know until I try.

 

To clarify what this layout is and why, is as follows.

We will be moving sometime this year to smaller accommodations and I will be building a "useable" readymade layout from Noch in Europe.  The layout is their Baden-Baden one with all the extensions possible, even the train yard under.  This layout can be either Z scale or N, simply by using proper track and accessories, thus the quandary about Z scale.  But N has won out because of the collection of trains and some other things which I already have.

 

So much for the discussion about the need for a large Z scale station.  Now the need is for an N station that would fit.  Their station naturally calls for the Baden-Baden station but would this be OK on a Japanese layout?    The other thing I will be looking for is an N scale castle that is a hilltop class, not flatland.  And not Matsumoto as that is what I have on my Bus & Tram layout.

 

The layout will not be ordered yet, but will be in the fall.  Wish me luck with getting it ordered before it is discontinued.

 

Gerry

Edited June 16, 2016 by gerryo

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

Sounds like you have thought it all thru well and have come to a good compromise. These things usually have to be a compromise, rarely do we get to have it all. I think you can have fun this way.

 

Unfortunately to get other n scale castles that are hillside ones or even ones w.o moats you could cheat with you are looking at the woody joe laser cut wood models. They are great, but expensive and look to be a lot of work... For example hill side Azuchi castle

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Woody-JOE-1-150-Wooden-Japanese-Building-Model-Kit-Azuchi-Castle-Brand-New-gift-/371643117448?hash=item5687a7ef88:g:2RAAAOSwxH1T7HN-

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?typ1_c=104&cat=&state=&sold=0&sortid=0&searchkey=Castle+woody+joe&spage=1&Scale=1%2f150

 

There is a 1/200 of a hill castle, not as impressive as the other tiered castles though

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10174856

 

Other option is one of the 1/200 kits that is moat ones and cheat and just put it on a hilltop

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10144170

 

There are some 1/300 kits but then you are really doing a forced perspective and need to do it as far back as you can and not have trains go right by it?

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

I think that I would prefer to keep to the 1/150 scale and to try to afford the Woody Joe models.  Two from your post that are interesting are the Inuyama with dimensions of 220mm W X 230mm H, and the Tsuruga with dimensions of 305W X 340D X 260H.

 

Others are OK but these are striking.  I favor the Tsuruga because of the broader base.  Another thing is, I wonder if it would be OK to use something like the Horyuji Inner Gate as an entrance/approach to the Tsuruga Castle?

 

Gerry

[cteno4]

Yep ive looked at the Inuyama and Tsuruga models as they seem to give a good castle look but lower price to try one and smaller footprint with more siting options. but still at $250 its a hmmmm moment every time i look at them!

 

The woody joe models do look great, but ive never seen pictures of the actual kits to see how much of the wood is pre colored and how much you need to do. these are not easy kits by the look of them, they are lasercut wood, so they need to be removed (ie small tabs cut) and glued like a sankei kit. from the looks of them its a lot of parts! I keep eyeing them as they do look lovely, but may require a large amount of work to complete and make beautiful!

 

The castles usually have rings of walls and entrances that all are usually staggered, again to confuse and slow invaders and route them into clear shooting paths at them from different hiding places. Many times now the current castle or recreating does not have those outer rings anymore or only some semblance on them. not sure if any were quite the grandeur of Horyuji gates, most ive seen were more smaller and more utilitarian looking. similar roofs but if there was a guard house on top it was more armored. good examples here

 

http://thecarpentryway.blogspot.com/2013/01/japanese-gate-typology-9.html

 

http://www.japanese-castle-explorer.com/gallery.html?view=Gate

 

http://hayakawajunpei.tumblr.com/post/43879793800/japanese-castle-gates-the-architectural-structure

 

https://doyouknowjapan.com/castles/

 

jeff

[cteno4]

oooh i found a blog on doing a woody joe castle! lots of good picts and info! they look like challenging kits to do. i wondered how they do the stone work on the walls and its basically like fitting field stone! make trapezoids and then piece it all together!

 

https://shipmodeler.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/iwakuni-castle-model-from-woody-joe/

 

https://shipmodeler.wordpress.com/2014/12/10/building-woody-joes-iwakuni-castle-an-initial-report/

 

https://shipmodeler.wordpress.com/2015/02/12/building-woody-joes-iwakuni-castle-an-in-progress-report/

 

https://shipmodeler.wordpress.com/2015/02/23/building-woody-joes-iwakuni-castle-a-final-report/

 

some instruction manuals translated

 

https://shipmodeler.wordpress.com/2014/06/03/woody-joe-kits-with-english-language-instructions/

 

here is an importer that seems to do list price but with inexpensive shipping and final prices better than those importers on ebay. can contact the owner to see about other kits, sounds like the blog guy did a special order.

 

http://zootoyz.jp/contents/en-us/d100_Woody_JOE_Model_of_the_Japanese_Castle.html

 

jeff

[tossedman]

I see on the Woody-joe web site that the 1/150 Matsue Castle is about 60 hours of work. And they seem to go up from there. Looks like a project for some long cold winter nights. Oops, not so, a second look says only 30 hours for the Iwakuni Castle but it's 150 hours for Himeji Castle!

 

Cheers eh,

 

Todd

[cteno4]

yeah and it sounded like the wooden shop modeler thought it should be twice their estimate and thats coming from a wooden ship modeler!

 

the Kumamoto 1/144 had held me off as its a lot of work if you really want to paint and trick it out completely as it can be taken apart to see the interiors. so ive kept it off till i have a big chunk of time as i could see it getting stalled out!

 

jeff

[gerryo]

Aw, c'mon Jeff.  The world is waiting for you to build yours so we can use your experiences.

 

Should this thread now be moved to N scale?  Or should we wait in case I change my mind again?

 

Gerry

Edited June 17, 2016 by gerryo

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

Probably best to leave it here as its got a lot of the z gauge discussion in it mainly. Best to start a new layout design thread on the new n scale layout idea with the noch base and go from there.

 

Jeff

[kvp]

Maybe it's a bit off topic here, but Rokuhan is releasing nice Z scale japanese style platforms:

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10396120

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10396122

 

[railsquid]

Aha, now I understand where the name "Rokuhan" is derived from.

[cteno4]

Aha, now I understand where the name "Rokuhan" is derived from.

and that is?? curious minds and such...

 

jeff

[IST]

If I remember well and if I read well the kanjis on the picture, roku means 6 and han means half.

[tossedman]

Bingo!!!