Trying Z Gauge - Again

[gerryo]

I'm trying Z gauge, again.  I done quite a lot of Z about 10 years ago and will give it another go because of the possibility of smaller living quarters later.  I just now ordered a couple of Sankei houses to try my hand at paper modelling.  Hope that these hands don't shake too much.

 

One thing I will be needing is a fairly large Japan style Station building.  If anyone knows of one please let me know.  I will be using Rokuhan track and possibly their trains.  I have no experience with them so would like advice if available. 

 

We'll see how things progress.

 

Gerry

[kvp]

For japanese models, N scale is better. Easier to get, easier to build and easier to maintain. On the other hand, the Rokuhan track system is very nice. Actually it feels like a mixture of Kato and Tomix track. I can't comment on the rolling stock as i only have west german ep. 3 trains in Z gauge, running on Maerklin and Rokuhan tracks (just two tiny half finished layouts).

 

Sankei kits however are hard. Not just a bit hard, but way harder than a regular european plastic kit and incomparable to any Tomytec kits. I would say that getting the same level in japanese Z that you can get with entry level japanese N scale is much harder and require good modelling skills and more patience.

 

For a Z scale large station building, i seem to rember that a company released the Tokyo station building in Z scale. Not too detailed but nice and easier to build. For a really large building that looks like a late JNR era modern building, i would use an european kit, like the Maerklin 8960 Goppingen station and bash two building kits into a general japanese modern look. (in case of the 8960 by using the street fronts on both sides, with some parts of the glass front at track side and replacing/painting the platform canopies that go with it)

 

I would say, Z scale is not much smaller compared to N scale to worth all the trouble of kitbashing or scratchbuilding most japanese things. (for german ep 3-4, it's great as most kits and rtr sets are built for that region and time) So imho if you are only choosing japanese Z because of the space requirements, it's not a great idea compared to N.

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

Sorry to hear the smaller space in the future, but Z should be more graceful in a downsize.

 

Not sure ive seen much in the way of larger stations in Z, maybe there is a euro one that can be mashed a bit to look like a larger japanese station.

 

good thing is a lot of the larger stations are rather simple so may be something easier to scratch or kitbash than other structures.

 

Good to give the Sankei a try. they are not too fiddly, just take a bit of patience and practice. take a look at the videos here as they are useful in seeing how they generally go together and easy ways to glue bits. 

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/2026-sankei-paper-kits/?p=127071

 

these hair clips are handy for them as well

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/6483-simple-clips/

 

and to help hold corners together while glueing ive made these little jigs out of hair clips and a chunk of wood and works well

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/6573-i-so-want-this-but-the-price/page-3?do=findComment&comment=75178

 

yell for help as well. if you find them too hard you could look into if anyone would be into being hired to build them. maybe even find a kid locally to do them! 

 

good luck and keep us posted! 

 

cheers

 

jeff

[cteno4]

Sankei kits however are hard. Not just a bit hard, but way harder than a regular european plastic kit and incomparable to any Tomytec kits. I would say that getting the same level in japanese Z that you can get with entry level japanese N scale is much harder and require good modelling skills and more patience.

 

I have to disagree, Sankei kits are not that hard. Ive had worse times with some euro kits than sankei kits. Yes they are a little fiddly and take a kit or two to learn how it all works, but then its not hard at all.

[tossedman]

Get the right glue and Sankei kits aren't difficult. I found this stuff to be great. https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10043289

It's probably just white glue but the applicator is excellent.

 

Cheers eh,

 

Todd

[railsquid]

The DeAgostini part-work series has a Tokyo Station model.

 

[Themetropolitainline]

Ok so it not a station from japan but European style buildings are found all over the world and when your modelling such a small scale and items are hard to find then maybe this will work.

 

http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Märklin/3-1-0-236327-004013-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html

 

And this is the approach to the station

 

http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Märklin/3-1-0-236328-004014-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html

Edited May 21, 2016 by Themetropolitainline

[ToniBabelony]

Ok so it not a station from japan but European style buildings are found all over the world and when your modelling such a small scale and items are hard to find then maybe this will work.

Japanese stations rarely have fully arched platform canopies and especially not these massive European styled ones. For a fantasy layout it will work, but for a Japanese layout this will never ever work.

[kvp]

I would still vote for kitbashing a 70ies european station into a 70ies japanese one. They don't look pretty but the styles are nearly the same and also nothing covers the trains and the flat roofs won't block the view either.

 

I have a question: What trains do you plan to run? That would pretty much narrow down the era and the styles and than it's only a question of availability.

[Themetropolitainline]

Unless the guy has the skills to scratch build from nothing but materials then I was only suggesting a kit as finding Z scale is more difficult than N scale, i have travelled all over japan and i know what they look like.Personally i would build from scratch working from photos,plans and measurements 

Edited May 21, 2016 by Themetropolitainline

[Densha]

Japanese stations rarely have fully arched platform canopies and especially not these massive European styled ones. For a fantasy layout it will work, but for a Japanese layout this will never ever work.

Well, Nankai Nanba station had a rather London terminal station feeling to it:

http://k-conny.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-06-16-1

http://k-conny.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-06-26

 

That said, the canopies are much lower than their European equivalents and span two-three tracks, rather than the five-six tracks you often find at large European arched canopies.

[ToniBabelony]

Well, Nankai Nanba station had a rather London terminal station feeling to it:

http://k-conny.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-06-16-1

http://k-conny.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-06-26

 

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't know about that one. It really looks like a UK terminal station. Not specifically London, but very UK like. Still, not a massive German styled hall though.

 

That said, Fukuoka sta. of Nishitetsu also had UK styled canopies: http://b1hanabusa.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/user_images/20120719/21/b1hanabusa/a9/e1/j/o0800051412088006481.jpg Hence, maybe it's good to look for UK inspired/made Z-scale products for railway infrastructure.

[gerryo]

The Tokyo station looks good to me.  Can someone tell me where it is available?  As I don't read Japanese I never found this out from the video.

 

Gerry

[kvp]

It was part of a mail order series for a complete layout. The building seems to be distributed among multiple monthly packages, so getting a used assembled version seems to be the easiest.

 

This is the biggest problem with japanese Z. You have to hunt japanese only sites for rare stuff. Going from the most easily available size (N) to one of the rareest one (Z) is not a wise choice for someone not speaking japanese.

 

Imho if you want to make a japanese layout in the foreseeable time, you should do it in N scale where almost everything is available off the shelf.

[dabsan]

Hi, I model in both N and Z, there are plenty of great models available these days esp from companies such as Rokuhan.

I originally started with Mini Marklin (German locos mainly) and now run Japanese models from Rokuhan, Primloco, ZJGauge.

Even started making some models for 3D printing on Shapeways, my latest model is a YO8000 in Z Gauge

 

[gerryo]

It seems to me that there are quite a few Japanese people on this site.  If they understand Japanese, could they not tell me if they know of one?  I'm not in that much of a hurry.

 

Gerry

[gerryo]

Part of my problem is that, as I've pointed out, I am 75 years old.  Kitbashing is out of the question.  Building from kits is hard enough for these shaky hands and weak eyes.  There are NO British kits in Z scale, as I found out years ago, and I don't have the interest there to even look.  Yes, I am a bit biased, but Japanese it will be.

 

Gerry

[kvp]

Dabsan, i wasn't talking about rolling stock or tracks, but buildings. There is very little available from the first two, but almost none from buildings and smaller details.

 

In N, you can get a dozen different stations off the shelf with buildings and platforms. Many of them are assembled and ready to use.

 

In Z, it's very hard to get a few kits, with no ready to use japanese station sets. The available kits are mostly rural stops and small stations. You have to kitbash or scratchbuild such simple things like a decent platform. It's possible but imho very very hard and takes years.

 

This is why i said N scale is better supported if you want a real japanese layout and you want it fast with no scratchbuilding at all. This might change with the first platform and elevated station sets, but currently they don't yet exist. A small rural branchline layout is buildable from kits, but anything more ambitious with a japanese theme seems really hard to build with what is available right now.

[dabsan]

Dabsan, i wasn't talking about rolling stock or tracks, but buildings. There is very little available from the first two, but almost none from buildings and smaller details.

 

In N, you can get a dozen different stations off the shelf with buildings and platforms. Many of them are assembled and ready to use.

 

In Z, it's very hard to get a few kits, with no ready to use japanese station sets. The available kits are mostly rural stops and small stations. You have to kitbash or scratchbuild such simple things like a decent platform. It's possible but imho very very hard and takes years.

 

This is why i said N scale is better supported if you want a real japanese layout and you want it fast with no scratchbuilding at all. This might change with the first platform and elevated station sets, but currently they don't yet exist. A small rural branchline layout is buildable from kits, but anything more ambitious with a japanese theme seems really hard to build with what is available right now.

Yes very true Kvp. You are spot on :)

[tossedman]

Help a man out here fellas!

 

Rokuhan does have many structures available for mail order. No stations though. http://www.rokuhan.com/english/products/structures/

 

Hobby Search has stations here. They are all kits. http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/list/1563/6/1?word=station&sold=1

 

And platforms here. Some are kits and some are complete. http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/list/1563/6/1?sold=1&word=platform

 

I'm sure there's more available.

 

Cheers eh,

 

Todd

Edited May 22, 2016 by tossedman

[cteno4]

Gerryo,

 

I would see if anyone local might be into building some of the kits for you that you think might be too hard for you with shaky hands. Adds some cost in there, but if your space is forcing this then might be the only way to get some things done in z.

 

The one good thing with z is that enough of a reduction form n that every bit of detail does not have to be done. Papercraft stuff (i.e. Printout cardstock models) actually looks better in z as surface relief detail at z for many things just would never be seen viewing it at more than a couple of inches away. N scale cardstock printout files can be reduced easily to z scale on the printer. Again finding a modeler of some sort that you might hire to make this sort of stuff for you might help. Gives you a little more latitude! Rest of the scenery stuff is all pretty much the same as N just use finer/smaller materials.

 

Vehicles seem to be the bigger problem in z for Japanese, not the selection there is in N, but some and some euro can be adapted as well.

 

Might contact Modeltrainplus and loco1hobby to see if they have ideas for items for the layout as well and they can be on the lookout for you.

 

Jeff

[ozman2009]

As far as Z scale Japanese trains go, the Rokuhan models are excellent. In my opinion, much better than the Z trains Marklin are making these days.

[gerryo]

Thank You Todd, for pointing those out for me.  I had seen them before and passed them over because they are paper.  I have a couple of Sankei Kits on order and will give them a try once more.

 

Jeff, thank you again. I have never thought of getting someone else to do them for me.  Might be worth a try.

 

And Gary.  I had a very large collection of Marklin Z at one time and gave it all up to build a very large N scale in British.  Marklin was ok at the time but VERY expensive.  Rokuhan seem much more reasonable and they have all of the track sizes that Marklin have at almost double the price.

 

I'm sure this will all work out.  I'm just very nervous about using Z again as far as size goes.  But we overcome.

 

Thanx Guys,

Gerry

[Densha]

Rokuhan does have many structures available for mail order. No stations though.

Rokuhan just announced they are planning a platform series: http://www.rokuhan.com/english/news/2016/04/post-32.html

[cteno4]

Might find a young person that enjoys building kits that will do them maybe on a flat fee basis for something fun to do while watching tv! I use to paint toy soldiers when I was a kit for a local hobbist that rally got into the hobby and started selling them as well. He could not do the tiny painting so few of us made a few bucks. could have made a bit more at other jobs, but it was fun and something I could easily do while watching tv or visiting with friends.

 

Before you go whole hog maybe get a train and some track to make sure it's workable for you as a quick test.

 

Sankei kits take some patience, so take them slow and also it's practice. My first I screwed up in a few places but as I've built them they have gotten much easier and I do them better. Those videos are really helpful as well. I've found scalpel blades work a bit better to slice the tiny sprues than the xacto blade as it's easier to to snap the tip on the xacto in the little slot you are cutting the sprue bit in.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff