T-Trak Tokyo Project

[ToniBabelony]

A little report on today's 'Kickoff Meeting'.

 

The opening speech was done by Mr. Uematsu, the organiser and glue of the T-Trak Tokyo Project. He introduced the 'renewed' concept of the 33mm rail centre distance T-Trak and its popularity abroad, as well as the increasing popularity amongst USA based NTrak clubs. The goal for 2020, for having the largest T-Trak meeting in the world was also proposed.

 

Second up was Mr. Higurashi, one of the main members of the Japan T-Trak (Romen Module) club and layout maintenance guy at the JR East Saitama Railway Museum. He discussed the long history of T-Trak in Japan, and was laying down the hammer heavy on the origins of the standards and how T-Trak has come to be.

 

After that, I quickly introduced some insights on T-Trak in Europe and on what size standards I think we should follow. The argument was about either having the classic 210mm depth or the new 355mm depth. I rooted for both and everything in between, to have maximum flexibility.

 

The last up was Mr. Kato himself who presented his participation in this year's Milwaukee Train Fest with his modules and appearance in US magazines. The EVA 500 Shinkansen was also presented as a closure to the meeting (probably because of the timing and adding a bit of exclusivity to the whole event).

 

After the lectures, there was some running time on the few T-Trak modules on display, as well as some chatting on the whole thing. To me, it was a successful meeting so far and with the thought of the project re-appearing in RM Models, I think this will be heading for success like the 25mm standard did before. This time however with international pedigree to back it up!

Edited May 30, 2016 by Kabutoni (a.k.a. Toni Babelony)

[IST]

Thanks for the report and that you rooted both depth. It seems to me that 210 mm started to disappear in T-trak community and modules become bigger and bigger.

 

One question:

Why is everybody would like to organize the biggest/largest T-Trak event? There was some month ago an American event that was told the biggest one, but when I saw the video about it I saw a lot of very basic modules and it seemed to me the quantity went over the quality. Of course it is nice if there are more and more modules, I just do not understand why it is so important to have the largest T-Trak exhibition.

 

It would be fun to go to Tokyo in 2020 with my modules but I am afraid it would be hard to get an invitation and a complete nightmare to transport the modules. :)

[ToniBabelony]

I rooted for keeping the 210mm standard for the easy transportation, as this is a basic size for postal services here (A4 sized packages). This will make transport easy, even if you're not planning on carrying it yourself, but have it sent by post. This was also one of my arguments in my short talk.

 

One of the goals is the biggest meeting in 2020, but does not necessarily mean the biggest layout, but can also mean the biggest amount of attendees. Large modules aren't feasible in Japan anyway, so it will be the quantity of people, rather than the quantity of tracks. This means the modules will remain small, a the level of detail per module will be retained. The importance of the 2020 idea is to obtain a momentum in the popularity and gain interest amongst the general public (all age groups). I see it as a motivation to have standards as internationally compatible as possible, so when a visitor from abroad brings/sends his/her module, a meeting can be set up or attended without problems.

[cteno4]

IMHO I don't thing the 25 vs 33 really matters all that much. The 25 is quite nice for streetcar stuff and the 33 for larger stuff. Folks get so fixated on every module being able to interact with every other module. It's actually much better to have a few setups a a meet with different themes to make a much better impression on your audience than having mega layouts. Mega only impresses one thing on the visitor, mega, the detail gets swamped and you actually overwhelm many folks and they are a bit stunned and they really don't focus on detail. Having different themed smaller layouts makes them approachable, focusable, and good to stick in memory.

 

I thing all shows should have both some 25 streetcar and 33 interurban and even join them at some point maybe but work on things being approachable and having some overall theme that helps make a larger thing the visitor can hold onto other than just individual detailed modules.

 

Moving tracks to the back so you have places where the modules are flipped with the scenes on the fron sides also helps mix things up a lot as the larger setups with huge straight sections starts to look boring at a distance even if there is great scenery, this is one issue n track has to really stand out,mthe long straight sections although may be prototypical in areas just look boring as a scale model as our minds eye us not use to looking at rr tracks at great distances and seeing they are pretty straight. The long sections of straight track are up front and say boring before the eye gets to the scenery! Folks in the us like them as they try to run 100 car trains even in ttrak!

 

Also always good to have a small like 6-8 module set up as well to show how well it can be to have a little layout at home as well.

 

Showing the versatility of ttrak is the key!

[kvp]

Kato unitrack is pretty robust and reliable and the ttrak standards (all of them) allow interconnections without too much planning. The 33mm rule just makes ttrak easier as you can go by the default Kato templates and use all Kato buildings and accessories. (on the other hand 25mm is the unitram standard) Imho a general rule could be that as long as it works it's good.

 

Jeff, i'm ok with mega layouts but prefer realistic ones, like point to point and especially branching ones. One good idea is (imho) a ttrak station that is made up of two ttrak stations, one 33mm mainline and one 25mm tram. By placing them next to each other (with seamless scenery across them) you can connect two layouts without direct traffic and could also be fully prototypical.

 

Thanks for the info Toni and please keep us updated!

[cteno4]

Toni,

 

it's wonderful you are apart of helping lead this resurgence of Ttrak in Japan! It sounds like there is still a huge following there and renewed interest. I like that there was a lot of interest and emphasis on doing great scenes and the small, transportable nature of the original sized modules as well. The ttrak I've seen done in Japan in the past has always seemed to follow the original concept of Ttrak being the great scenes with track running thru it and not just tracks with some sort of scene thrown behind it! It was inspirational to see the variation in track work, doing single track as well, odd sized modules and crazier layouts that didn't feel like a bunch of big loops!

 

Sorry I got on a rant there! There are some renewed interest here in the states in ttrak in the last month with the Ntrak governing body reaching out to ttrak to include them more as part of Ntrak org. A lot of the ttrak here in the states has come out of ntrak clubs with sub or spinoff groups forming ttrak groups. This has lead to a lot of the I think mega layout mentality in ttrak. Ntrak was developed for big american mainline operation and larger scenes. Ttrak was almost the opposite in smaller micro scenes and smaller trains and trams. But the a lot of the us ttrak has tried to follow Ntrak more with longer and deeper module and the emphasis on doing big layouts at the convention that end up driving the look and feel of the layout rather than placement of scenes and such as secondary.

 

I met Lee Monaco a few times in 2002-2004 just after she started to popularize Ttrak here in the states. We then corresponded a lot over the years about the whole concept of Ttrak, design and presentation. She was very talented modeler and had a great eye for a scene. This was why she focused in so quickly on the idea of the mini diorama when she saw the presentation of the idea at the convention in Japan and instantly was able to combine the Ntrak modularization that she and her husband Jim had been so intergral in developing. She really saw Ttrak as being a very scene based display and detail important so folks would get up close and really look at the scenes and not just stand back and look at the layout only as a whole. Again this meshed perfectly with the modeling she saw in Japan and the transportation and space issues there as well.

 

One long discussion I had with her over the years was the depth of the bases. Visually as designed as usually being a 2.75" high front just unbalanced things to my eye and to exhibit designers I showed it to. Framing, mouldings, etc in the exhibit world is one of those hidden nightmares to get just right to balance with what is being displayed, not stand out,mbut feel comfortable to the subjective/subconscious side. There are several ways to do thinner module faces and help diminish the large wall the deep frames create. The U style frame works well and I did a couple of experiments that I want to get back on using two inset cross pieces to forms bit of a sushi tray look. The sushi tray is done to be that great peresentation platter for the arranged sushi and this is a very similar situation. These legs can also have the leveling bolts in the an be attached with Velcro or magnets so they can come off and make for svealter storage. Larger frames can be made for for thinner layouts it rest on letting you level up several modules at once (this really helps avoid one of the most tedious parts of setting up, along with looking at doing 3 leveling bolts with 2 in front and once center back).

 

Anyhow I think there are a lot of creative places to bring design into the presentation of Ttrak layouts. Looking forward to what this new push does and ideas and creativity it can stimulate here! I see fertile ground for interesting new Ttrak presentations that can veer away from the "big" Ttrak/small Ntrak and focus it well on where it can really shine. So glad you are part of this Toni! Please keep us updated.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[railsquid]

It was an interesting set talk of talks, especially as I don't really know much about this kind of stuff. It would certainly be interesting to come up with a module or two, possibly something I could involve the Squidlet in too, when he's a bit bigger.

 

I'm still a bit confused about the debate which seems to be going on - is the aim to decide on a standard depth for modules or something?

 

Kato-san is a very nice guy, I had a quick chat with him.

[ToniBabelony]

For big meetings, indeed several layouts may be a good idea, but the general idea is to have long trains running on the layouts, as the head of the organisation (Mr. Uematsu) is keen on having yards that can hold full size trains (e.g. Cassiopeia). This is a change from the 'traditional' 25mm T-Trak approach, but I think also an attractive point. Considering Japanese trains don't have dozens upon dozens of cars trailing behind a handful of locomotives, I think this is very feasible for bigger meetings.

 

One topic that came up a day ago was the scenery that would get hidden from the trains or otherwise. This prompted the idea of making S-modules (double length) to have the trains swap sides and have more scenery-heavy modules as possibility. If it all fits in the T-Trak grid, I think this is a fine and simple solution.

 

The whole discussion now is more to get people familiar with the 33mm concept. It is very close to the 25mm concept, but it has a few more perks, as to being able to run zairaisen rolling stock. I think this will attract a LOT more people, as Trams are still a niche. Another reatively positive thing about Japan, in regards to variety in modules, is that people often don't have much space to store a module, nor have or use personal transport to visit meetings. This limits the size and amount of modules that people can bring, which means participants are more likely to spend more effort on detailing a single module, rather than making a boring triple-length module with two houses and a grass mat pasted on it.

 

In regards to the 25mm vs. 33mm thought, there is none as far as I can see. The next T-Trak meeting at the JNMA will have a mixture of 25mm and 33mm modules. Transition modules will also be provided (as I understand from the internal conversations). The limitations will however still be set by the minimum radius on the 25mm modules provided. At some point, this will also become part of the discussion, but I figure that will be the splitting point where 25mm and 33mm will become separate running bases (not separate in existence though).

[kvp]

For HJMTC, IST has suggested the 33mm spacing as he was already using it for his british modules. The 282mm base curve was a natural fit for it, although i do have the 150mm end modules for traction running. This spacing has enabled me to use the Kato island platforms between the two main tracks. For train lengths, we aimed at single box sets, so between 5 to 7 cars. This gives us a station length of 4 modules or two straights and two #4 ends.

 

Transportation wise, i'm thinking about making two planks that would allow 4 modules on each to be scewed on by the leg screws (remove, push through the plank and scew in from the other side) and then use two end cap plates to make a 4x2 jig that would allow the transportation of 8 modules on two planks facing each other. That would be a 125x21..34x25..30cm sized package that could be moved by public transportation and could carry any module sizes between single and quadruple. This could work for 2 modules too, by making single pairs as small as 31x21x21cm and you can even add a carrying handle to one of the end cap boards. (add some dust foil wrap around the length if you want to seal it from all sides, but these jigs should be enough) This means between 2 and 8 single sized straight modules per person that could be hand carried on public transport.

[ToniBabelony]

For transport in Japan, a single module (210x310) can already be a hassle in public transport when it's a little bit busy. Anybody who has been on a morning train (even in the weekend), travelling down into the Tokyo metropolitan area, you know how busy it can get (100% occupancy and over is not uncommon). In the evening it can even get worse with more pushing behaviour because of intoxicated people. Having something you can place in the luggage racks above the seats would be the most recommended before becoming a nuisance and/or taking up the space for a standing person. Some railway companies themselves also recommend and even forbid travelling with oversized luggage during crowded hours in commuter trains.

[kvp]

That's why two modules, facing each other with a handle could be easy to transport. The longer variant could be placed on a luggage rack as it's longer, but has the same dimensions as the handbag variant. The modules facing each other will protect each other from damage and the space under the module (if it's not a bridge module), could be used to carry trains and other stuff, like a few tomytec boxes, held in place with wrapping paper/foil, rubber bands or just friction if a matching box is found (and some filler foam is added). The clear kitchen packaging wrap used by more careful japanese sellers to fix items together could be used (optionally) to make the whole 'bag' water and dust tight. (assuming standard module sides and screw legs are used)

 

 

[IST]

I think you did not catch the point here. :-) If YOU have no space in the train, you AND some modules traveling together is almost impossible in the early and late hours in Tokyo. Beside of that there are modules which request more space for the scenery than it is on your image (for example modules with higher buildings, trees, Godzilla, etc.).

[cteno4]

A simple wood box suitcase is what I have planned out with a few rails inside edges and modules just slide in. One end just hinges down. You can pack quite a few in there! Sides can have a pair of columns of predrilled holes to just bolt the slides at the appropriate heights to fit module scenery.

 

Folks build open racks like this here to stack modules like the suitcase idea w.o sides to transport like a dozen modules at a time.

 

Unfortunately there are no conviently sized plastic containers here to hold modules well and it can be a challenge to get them in and out of a tight fitting box w,o some tricks.

 

Jeff

[kvp]

I think you did not catch the point here. :-) If YOU have no space in the train, you AND some modules traveling together is almost impossible in the early and late hours in Tokyo. Beside of that there are modules which request more space for the scenery than it is on your image (for example modules with higher buildings, trees, Godzilla, etc.).

If you don't have space for two modules, then your hand carried single module will get crushed too.

 

Spacing between the two modules is adjustable during frame construction. Also i have a more simple idea if you are willing to drill holes into the connecting faces. You can just take two planks and drill the ends of the modules, add leg holder nuts to these holes too (onto the inside) and use the leg screws to hold the two modules to the top and bottom plank. Afaik this is the smallest possible container for two modules. You can even hold it above your head in a crowd. As no scenery is facing outwards, most bumps during transport should be suvivable. (it's a good idea to drill the carrying planks at the rail ends to clear the unitrack ends and the unijoiners)

 

Imho if you can't take two narrow, single length ttrak modules to a meeting with public transport, then the meeting is your smallest problem. Packing them as pairs should make two carryable as a handbag.

[cteno4]

Some have used the sky boards to flip one module upside down on top of the other and two bolts thru each skyboard into the front face of the other module. Works only the end are open then, but I dislike hanging modules upside down and it's a 3 handed affair to put them together and take them apart... Folks have done this with n trak modules as well and a handle on the back of one sky board and you have a big suitcase.

 

Jeff

[ToniBabelony]

If you don't have space for two modules, then your hand carried single module will get crushed too.

 

Let's have this discussion in a different thread where we discuss T-Trak in general. Not this particular project where people actually have to carry their modules on Japanese public transport and/or have experience doing so. Theoretical assumptions don't really help in this regard.

[westfalen]

For big meetings, indeed several layouts may be a good idea, but the general idea is to have long trains running on the layouts, as the head of the organisation (Mr. Uematsu) is keen on having yards that can hold full size trains (e.g. Cassiopeia).

 

My new T-TRAK yard being tested at the club last month (it has since had another double length module replace the single one in the centre), note the full length Hokutosei on the second track.

[kvp]

Yes Jeff, exactly like that! I just thought of using end boards as the main frame, so you don't have to make holes into the skyboard (or even have one) and by using the leveling (leg) screws already present, you can pack it alone, one screw at a time. (essentially flip module sideways, add screws, add other module, add screws, lift it up) It's true you have to hang them sideways but with a carrying handle on one end (and not on the thin skyboards), it's easy to move the modules around.

 

ps: i think this might be relevant for those people who would like to attend and might want to post or hand carry modules to the 2020 event. (there seems to be no smaller carrying case possible than the modules themselves)

Edited June 1, 2016 by kvp

[inobu]

Their goal can be achievable but the key is based on participation.

 

They should try to recreate Japans rail system as the primary goal. Of the 47 prefectures there are 8 regions. To gain participation from a group/regional perspective the organizers will be able to manage the overall projects as well as identify areas not represented. 

 

Within each region each city can make their contribution. Each city can have their landmarks represented bringing ownership to the project.

 

Because it is a group effort the cost can be spread across further insuring success. Foreign entries can be included with the same concept of representing their own region or choosing to support an Japanese prefecture.

 

This plan will create a scenario where local area can setup and display before hand to insure that everyone has experience in setting up and tearing down before the Tokyo event.

 

Inobu

Edited June 1, 2016 by inobu

[westfalen]

I think one of the great things about T-TRAK, at least the way we practice it, is the spontaneity.  In seven years I don't think we've set up a layout the same way twice and we rarely know what we're going to do until we start setting up and find out what space and modules we have and when we do have a plan it usually changes during set up when one of us has another idea.  Of course that method probably wouldn't sit well with the Japanese love of order and planning.

[ToniBabelony]

I think one of the great things about T-TRAK, at least the way we practice it, is the spontaneity.  In seven years I don't think we've set up a layout the same way twice and we rarely know what we're going to do until we start setting up and find out what space and modules we have and when we do have a plan it usually changes during set up when one of us has another idea.  Of course that method probably wouldn't sit well with the Japanese love of order and planning.

 

The Japanese method is to have all participants email beforehand who and with what modules will be participating. I haven't participated yet, but before the meeting, a layout is proposed/planned with block control, so the one carrying the ATC system knows what to bring. From time to time I've seen people drop out because of reasons, but there is always a module or two planned as backup, or extra modules (or elevated tracks) to compensate for corners and/or length issues.

 

My new T-TRAK yard being tested at the club last month (it has since had another double length module replace the single one in the centre), note the full length Hokutosei on the second track.

20160501_151338.jpg

 

I think that photo was used as an example to present the possibilities of full-size trains on T-Trak on the Facebook page somewhere. It generated quite some positive awe.

[westfalen]

The Japanese method is to have all participants email beforehand who and with what modules will be participating. I haven't participated yet, but before the meeting, a layout is proposed/planned with block control, so the one carrying the ATC system knows what to bring. From time to time I've seen people drop out because of reasons, but there is always a module or two planned as backup, or extra modules (or elevated tracks) to compensate for corners and/or length issues.

 

 

I think that photo was used as an example to present the possibilities of full-size trains on T-Trak on the Facebook page somewhere. It generated quite some positive awe.

That's the other thing with T-TRAK, it's adaptabilty to changing on the run, we often arrive at a show to find the space allocated to us is a different shape or size or the layout next to us hasn't turned up and we are asked if we can expand into the space.  Despite the challenges it would be interesting to take part in a Japanese show just to see how it all works.

 

I did post the photo on the T-TRAK Facebook page.

[ToniBabelony]

All, but Mr. Kato's speeches have been posted online by Mr. Uematsu:

 

Part 1 (Mr. Uematsu)

 

Part 2 (Mr. Higurashi 1/3)

 

Part 3 (Mr. Higurashi 2/3)

 

Part 4 (Mr. Higurashi 3/3)

 

Part 5 (me)

[railsquid]

There were more people there than it looks from the angle they filmed from, including one railsquid, who is just off the picture to the left.