Tram stations for single-line track?

[Guest ___]

I use to have reversing loops on my HO layout for the Boeing LRV that I ran. It was a major pain in the rump roast.

[scott]

Bernard--I understand the loop and point-to-point designs--what I was confused by was:

 

you would have to add 2 loops onto your layout, just a point to point section with bumpers at each end.

 

...which seems to describe both. Should there have been an "or" before "just", or am I missing the point? (I'm usually missing the point.....  :=\  ).

[Bernard]

Forgot to add "or". Here is a diagram of a reverse loop and you will need 2 of them.

And here are 2 photos of my "point to point" showing points A and B

[marknewton]

Maybe my english is too french. So let's rephrase it. If you don't have a return loop at each end of the single track then having a platform on each side doesn't serve any prurpose because the doors will be allways on the same side. After all double platforms are only needed in one man operations/unidirectional trams.

 

OK, I understand what you mean now. I was thinking in terms of the Portrams, which are bi-directional one-man cars.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[cteno4]

Scott,

 

if you want this to fit in the smallest space i would just suggest the single line with a reversing unit. this requires little space. if your trams are one sided on the doors, just put the platforms on that side and run the trams with the doors facing the platforms. greenmax makes a great skinny tram platform set if space is tight.

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10007634

 

the ru 2-1 would do you great if you decide to have multiple stops along the way as well as the reversing.

 

reversing loops are going to take a bit of space and be a headache on the power Y reversing on each end.

 

fun thing with a single tram line like this is you can run it down streets, though back alleys, across the country side, etc. it takes up relatively little space and can snake around with tighter radius curves.

 

so far been happy with the ru2-1. still need to do some light level tests and such, but its been behaving fine set up with some ttrak modules. you can double the stops by wiring two sensors in series as long as its in a decently bright location. see the ru2-1 post for more details. ill try to get some light level tests done this week to see what you can get away with on light. this unit is really nice as when you power it up it automatically senses the amount of light at each sensor and sets its base line (just dont want to have a tram over a sensor when you start up or it will not register when a tram hits it later). the timeout and other features are great. also dont need an additional power supply as its built in.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[scott]

Forgot to add "or".

 

Oh, OK--thanks!  

 

Here is a diagram of a reverse loop and you will need 2 of them.

And here are 2 photos of my "point to point" showing points A and B

 

Thanks--those look interesting, but I'm not sure I can make them fit in the space I have left on the layout.

 

if you want this to fit in the smallest space i would just suggest the single line with a reversing unit. this requires little space. if your trams are one sided on the doors, just put the platforms on that side and run the trams with the doors facing the platforms. greenmax makes a great skinny tram platform set if space is tight.

 

That's pretty much the plan right now--single line, greenmax platforms, etc.

 

the ru 2-1 would do you great if you decide to have multiple stops along the way as well as the reversing. [....]

fun thing with a single tram line like this is you can run it down streets, though back alleys, across the country side, etc. it takes up relatively little space and can snake around with tighter radius curves.

 

The RU2-1 sounds like a good fit, although it may have to wait for a later credit-card cycle. :-/

 

I was figuring this would run along a street (which would pretty much have to stand in for the station's city), but I hadn't thought of continuing into the countryside. That may have potential.

[Bernard]

For me, reverse loops are a real pain, I had one on my first layout and I vowed never have another one on any future track plans I would design. It really slows up the action.

[Martijn Meerts]

A well placed reverse loop can actually add a lot of variation to a layout, but they aren't necessarily easy to implement. As I mentioned before, if you're running DCC it becomes rather trivial, but they still require some planning to make sure they make sense. A lot of people have a return loop in their shadow station, which really makes a lot of sense.

[Mudkip Orange]

Death to reverse loops.

 

Reverse loops used to be an integral part of layout design (Linn Westcott era) when people ran steam, because steam looks whack moving backward. ALL the JR stock is basically symmetrical, even those switcher-type engines they use on Hokkaido.

 

As for trams, you need to know that Japan DOES NOT use turning loops ANYWHERE, nor does any modern US LRT system. So unless you're modeling SF, PHL, or Boston, it's unprototypical.

[scott]

Yeah, but they don't have to run on 12V DC carried through the tracks. 

[Mudkip Orange]

12V is an argument against reversing loops, since it makes modeling them even more difficult than it is for the prototype.

[cteno4]

 

The RU2-1 sounds like a good fit, although it may have to wait for a later credit-card cycle. :-/

 

I was figuring this would run along a street (which would pretty much have to stand in for the station's city), but I hadn't thought of continuing into the countryside. That may have potential.

 

yeah $85 aint peanuts, but for what it does its a good price. especially as you dont need a track power source for it. many reversing units only turn the power supplied to it on and off, so you need another power pack with it (that aint peanuts to add to the price!)

 

some of the trams in japan wander out into more suburban and rural type settings or along the sea shore! you also could just do the one from urban to suburban now and then at the suburban terminal station turn it into a transfer station with a track on the other side of the platform and have a different tram heading out into the rural area. would give you some variety with more modern sleek equipment in the urban scene and older equipment out into the rural area. this could be a fun phasing of the project to see if you like the streetcar. maybe the rural link would only need the cheaper ru11 w/o any intermediate stops ($45 shipped from engine tender). sort of a resort tram out to your ocean scene?!

 

do i sound like im the guy outside the school yard selling little packets of stuff to the kids???

 

cheers

 

jeff

[marknewton]

As for trams, you need to know that Japan DOES NOT use turning loops ANYWHERE...

 

Only strictly true for the present - there were a few instances in the past where Japanese tramways once had terminal loops, or individual services made a circuit of a loop and returned to their point of origin. without changing ends.

 

Just of the top of my head, Kanazawa (Hokuriku Railway town tramway division), Toyama (Toyama District Railway town tramway division), Kagoshima (City Transport Bureau) and Kotohira (Kotohira Express Electric Railway) all had loops at one time.

 

I'm nitpicking, I know, but that's what an otaku does.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[scott]

do i sound like im the guy outside the school yard selling little packets of stuff to the kids???

 

Wellll....ummm.....yes.

 

Actually, since we already have a "local" or rural point to point line, the tram connection at the station may take care of that. But it's a good idea.

 

Just of the top of my head.....I'm nitpicking, I know, but that's what an otaku does.

 

I bow to your vastly superior otaku-dom....very impressive. :)

[Bernard]

Mark - Now you have me thinking, do any of the tram lines use a turntable?

 

 

As for trams, you need to know that Japan DOES NOT use turning loops ANYWHERE...

 

Only strictly true for the present - there were a few instances in the past where Japanese tramways once had terminal loops, or individual services made a circuit of a loop and returned to their point of origin. without changing ends.

 

Just of the top of my head, Kanazawa (Hokuriku Railway town tramway division), Toyama (Toyama District Railway town tramway division), Kagoshima (City Transport Bureau) and Kotohira (Kotohira Express Electric Railway) all had loops at one time.

 

I'm nitpicking, I know, but that's what an otaku does.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[disturbman]

Scott can you show us an updated track plan or a mock up of the tram line on your layout? I would like to have an idea of what you are going to do.

 

By the way, you know you could also connect the tram line to the point to point local line? You could have a common station and then the tram will connect to this line on one side and goes his separate way on the other side.

[scott]

Once I get a clean track plan in Railmodeller, I'll post something.

 

I *could* connect the tram line, but space is a bit tight; I was going to run it behind the main station, with a regular tram stop in the "station plaza."

[cteno4]

Bob Tomasko, one of the jrm members, has a huge n scale unitrak layout in his basement that he has been growing for years. since he does not nail his track down he keeps changing and adding lines, i think he is now up to 14 or 15 lines which 4 or 5 are point to point tram lines which he recently added a couple of new ones to. they really help make the layout become more alive (even with all those trains running on a pretty complex and spread out track plan). some are right along the edge of the layout and very visible and some wind behind a lot of things which is fun as the tram disappears and reappears a lot.

 

i love the idea of the trams disappearing some as they make a lot of little surprises in the scenes then and keep you guessing. i have been working on the idea of some off set modules for the ttrak street cars to take the tracks to the back side of the modules so the scenery/structures are all in front and the tram will not be seen as much as it runs down a street on the rear of the module or through some back alley ways. nice to flip the scene to have the scenery in front and hide the the trams for part of the run!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[scott]

Now that the ridge/hill is mostly built, the climbing loop of our ptp line goes out of sight a good bit, reappearing briefly once on the inside of the curve, and twice in narrow valleys facing toward the outside of the layout.

[bill937ca]

Anyway, Scott, if you don't put a loop at each end of your single track the double platform scheme doesn't work at all.

 

Eh? It would most certainly work with a loop at each end.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

Hey Mark, you do realize Sayonara Streetcar says there has never been a streetcar loop in Japan?

[bill937ca]

Here are some examples of platforms on single track tram lines.

 

Iyotetsu lines 1 and 2 run a circle with single track on the north side of the circle.  Matsuyama Castle more or less sits in the center. Cars run every 10 minutes in both directions.  There are several stations with passing sidings which have platforms on each side.

 

Iyotetsu Kayamach Station.  Single platform with the other platform behind the photographer.

 

 

Iyotetsu Shimizumachi Station.

 

 

Iyotetsu-Takasagocho Station.  One track, two platforms.

 

 

Nagasaki.  Two staggered platforms, one track.

 

 

The other famous  station on the Iyotetsu has a double track tram line crossing the double track interurban line.

 

[scott]

Thanks, Bill! Nice to see some examples like that.

 

Nagasaki.  Two staggered platforms, one track.

is roughly what I was picturing.

[Mudkip Orange]

Bob Tomasko, one of the jrm members, has ... 14 or 15 lines

 

I need to see pics. Does this guy post on the forum?

[scott]

Scott can you show us an updated track plan or a mock up of the tram line on your layout? I would like to have an idea of what you are going to do.

 

Here's the updated track plan. The green line is the tram line. That and the sidings at the orange line are the parts that don't exist yet.

[Bernard]

Scott - You could animate this line with 3 trams running. As 1st Tram came into the station, a light sensor would trip the switch and send the 2nd tram on the line down the tram, when that tram came to it's final destination, it would also trip the turnout sending the 3rd tram down the line. It would keep on going in a cycle.

I'm not sure what this would involve, definitely light sensors in the track (or the Kato signal switch) but it could be costly.

 

Or you could use the RU1-1 or RU2-1 auto reverse units.

It looks like an eye catcher on the layout the new tram line.