"Dencha" 819 series

[katoftw]

JR Kyushu's part in energy savings:-

 

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by katoftw

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

JR Kyushu has really started to applying their test results (from the modified 817 series trains) on revenue usage, eh? 

[katoftw]

It look like it.  I wonder if it has enough juice to go up the hill to Tatano from Higo-Ozu?

Edited March 16, 2016 by katoftw

[Sacto1985]

According to Wikipedia, the 819's will be initially assigned to the non-electrified portion of the Chikuhō Main Line between Orio (where it crosses the Kagoshima Main Line) and Wakamatsu Stations. Given the line is probably relatively flat between Orio and Wakamatsu (and they'll probably have overhead power charging at Wakamatsu), battery power is very viable here.

 

Here's a zenmen tenbou video from YouTube member OleOleSaggy on the Wakamatsu Line portion of the Chikuhō Main Line that will get the 819 Series BEMU service:

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Sacto1985

[Suica]

Now that's a good looking train imho! 

 

Doesn't JR East operate an BEMU using the same system?

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

Now that's a good looking train imho! 

 

Doesn't JR East operate an BEMU using the same system?

JR East also operates their own BEMU (EV-E301 series) as well, but JR East ones is charged from 1.5kV DC, while JR Kyushu ones will fed on 20kV 60Hz AC power supply.

 

IMHO, with the fact that AC electrification costs very high on its own (but having the urges to replacing DMUs with the quieter EMUs), I thought that 819 would be a viable choice for JR Kyushu to balancing the expenses of modernizing the unelectrified local lines... 

[katoftw]

Kyushu for example has an aging fleet of DMUs.  You can replacement them with newer DMUs, or replace them with newer BEMUs/DENCHAs.

 

I could see JRK expanding their DENCHAs into other parts of their network quite easily in the future.  But the technology needs to get up so trains can do 45-50km.

 

Currently the Misumi Line to Misuni has 25km of unelectrified line from where it departs from the Kagoshima Main Line.

 

Ibusuki-Makurazaki Line from Kagoshima yards to Yamakawa = 42km

 

Nichinan Line from Miyazaki Airport to Aburatsu = 43km

 

So two options arise.  One is wait for the technology to get better and hope for it to reach 50km.  Or two is to electrify some parts of the lines.  I'd be surprised if the electrified any part of the Nichinan Line, as the cost expense just isn't warranted.  But some of the Ibusuki-Makurazaki Line expense could be warranted as south Kagoshima has a strong ridership.  JRK have been upgrading the line as far as Jigenji with viaduct style overhead grade separation.  But that only nets them 7km extra of electrification.

 

Other places like Higo-Ozu to Miyaji, Kurume to Hita and Oita to Yufuin/Bungotakata come to mind.  But I'd assume the technology is very far away for those routes.  And probably better suits to hybrid units.  Due to the hills and regen braking applications.

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

But the technology needs to get up so trains can do 45-50km.

This is one of the most challenging part: currently, battery-powered EMUs are having limited running distance due to its battery capacity. So I'm wondering what would be the best option to make battery EMUs could operate on longer distance...

 

 

But some of the Ibusuki-Makurazaki Line expense could be warranted as south Kagoshima has a strong ridership.

Well, with the very good ridership on southern part of Kagoshima area it would be viable to use the "half electrified, half unelectrified" system on Ibusuki Makurazaki Line, where sections located on the populated area would have 20kV 60Hz AC overhead lines (which is also usable as section for charging the B-EMUs while running under the overhead line), while the less populated area would be left in unelectrified condition (with the B-EMUs operating from its battery).

 

And of course JR Kyushu had to calculate how far the section that could be electrified, since current technology still restricts B-EMUs from running beyond 30km...

Edited March 19, 2016 by SuRoNeFu 25-501

[kvp]

I think the JR companies are cheating a bit as the newest JR E801 series units will have the same battery capacity as the 1954 DB ETA150 series initially had with lead batteries. They managed to double it around 1965 pushing the range of the 2 car sets from 150 to 300 km on a full charge. Considering the new sets are using lithium ion batteries instead of lead acid, that should offset the weight of the charging equipment that was stationary for the ETA150-s. Not to mention the modern control technology that should waste less energy. So imho the newer battery electrics should be able to go at least 100 km on a single charge, exactly what a modified 4 car electrostar set did in the UK last year during a trial.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV-E801_series

http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB-Baureihe_ETA_150

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

So imho the newer battery electrics should be able to go at least 100 km on a single charge, exactly what a modified 4 car electrostar set did in the UK last year during a trial.

Hopefully, as B-EMUs are having promising future in Japan (especially for every passenger companies of JR Group, where some of its local lines are still unelectrified until now due to various reasons)...

[Sacto1985]

However, JR Kyushu territory with a lot of gradients (which is essentially many JR Kyushu lines in the center of the island), I think the DMU's will still dominate, but the DMU's will likely be upgraded versions of the JR Kyushu-specific KiHa 125 but with diesel engines fitted with particulate filters and selective catalytic reduction (SCR) systems to keep the exhaust clean. I wouldn't be surprised if JR West does the same with their large KiHa 120 fleet if that is possible.

[miyakoji]

I think they'll R&D the hell out of these hybrids, BEMUs, etc and get them refined and practical.

 

As for the KIHA120s, they're getting a bit long in the tooth, I'll be interested to see when they're replaced and what with.  I'm a big fan the KIHA126s, but JRW already has a newer design in the KIHA127.  I wonder if it will be more of those or something newer yet.

[Sacto1985]

As for the KIHA120s, they're getting a bit long in the tooth, I'll be interested to see when they're replaced and what with.  I'm a big fan the KIHA126s, but JRW already has a newer design in the KIHA127.  I wonder if it will be more of those or something newer yet.

 

Given JR West's penchant to make a trainset last as long as possible, I think they have to be studying a long-life extension program for the KiHa 120's that include a new diesel engine with diesel particulate filters and selective catalytic reduction systems that could make them viable for at least another 15 years. It would be interesting to see if JR West expresses interest in something derived from the supposed hybrid DMU that will replace the KiHa 100/110 models in JR East service starting 3-4 years from now, since the KiHa 100/110 and KiHa 120 were both assembled by Niigata Transys.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Sacto1985

[Densha]

the supposed hybrid DMU that will replace the KiHa 100/110 models in JR East service starting 3-4 years from now

But... JR East still has a bunch of KiHa 40s in service, right? Them replacing newer trains rather than older ones doesn't make sense to me. Or is my source too outdated?

[katoftw]

However, JR Kyushu territory with a lot of gradients (which is essentially many JR Kyushu lines in the center of the island), I think the DMU's will still dominate, but the DMU's will likely be upgraded versions of the JR Kyushu-specific KiHa 125 but with diesel engines fitted with particulate filters and selective catalytic reduction (SCR) systems to keep the exhaust clean. I wouldn't be surprised if JR West does the same with their large KiHa 120 fleet if that is possible.

I'd think like JRE, JRK would start to introduce more hybrids like Kiha E200s or modern varient.  As a lot of the services now are 1 cars.  And a second or third added in peak times.  Probably still a decade away considering the ages of their Kiha 31s and Kiha 125s.

 

Something like a HB-E300 could potentially replace the Aso Boy, Yufuin no Mori, Yufu and Trans Kyushu Express services.  Although the Kiha 72 just are a refurb and extra car added, so doubtful it will get replaced any time soon.

Edited March 20, 2016 by katoftw

[kvp]

JR East still has a bunch of KiHa 40s in service

Considering the 103 series outlasted many much younger series, this wouldn't be a surprise. Also usually the oldest units are given away to 3rd sector companies as they have near zero worth.

 

For replacement, remotoring or rebuild, the deciding factor could be cost. A diesel hydraulic unit is just like a bus, simple and cheap to maintain, but eats diesel. A hybrid needs more maintenance but needs less fuel. A catenary hybrid is complex, AC versions more so and the most expensive. A straight battery unit is cheap and simple, but currently not considered due to stationary charge time requirements. As long as fuel is cheap, the diesel hybrids don't have much of a chance and catenary/battery electrics are only viable where the charge time is less than the time spent under overhead power. With today's technology thats around half of the route.

[katoftw]