Gerry's Tomytec Bus and Tram Module Planning

[cteno4]

Inside can cause issues when using the passing track.

 

It's not a necessity, it's just good practice. After like 11 years of running shinkansens on the various jrm layouts and lots of temp double viaduct setups here at home the only consistent issues we ever had with kato double viaduct were putting the point right next to the curve. While it was rare it was consistent once all the other things were cleaned up and worked on. We run trains like 8-10 hours straight at times and it was the whole variety of shinkansens. Also multiple copies of most of them from different members as individual trains of the same mode can run differently due small differences in truck tightness, wheel gauging, coupler and diaphragm stiffness, etc. the worst at this was the kato n700, it hated those points (something about the diaphragm couplers). But others could sometimes go on and on with no issue or a random derailment, but most all were at the points next to the curve and can be any car catching the blade and picking the point or jumping. Once we put the 128s in this largely went away.

 

Also using the kato spacing on the end platforms can cause a little bumping on some shinkansens going thru the S curve of the point and bend back. Learned this very early on and took off about 1/2" of the platform end at the large end and this got rid of this little bumping which reduced point derailments.

 

Anywhere you can do any easement at curves is goooood!

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

I think I will leave it as is for now and build with the short straight in.  Where my station is placed, it will be easy to change to allow for more station length.

 

I can now get on with building.  Thanx Guys.

Gerry

[gerryo]

     I will be resurrecting this topic as I seem to have a lot of time on my hands right now.  The necessary materials for the Z scale will be quite a while coming, so this will use up the time.

 

This topic has been down-scaled to a 1800mm X 600mm small unit.  Will have trams and buses only, with city buildings and a castle which has been completed and has lighting installed.  The tram loop will be doubled, and quite simple around the outside, and the buses will be using the Tomytec Moving Bus System BRT-A set of loops.  A large loop around the castle and a small loop around a pool.  All else will be covered with buildings.

 

This is just to keep me from going bonkers waiting for materials.

 

Gerry

Edited May 24, 2016 by gerryo

[kvp]

Could you please tell us what was the problem with the previous plan? (Somehow you seem to change plans every time one is ready for construction.)

[gerryo]

Yes, I can tell you.  There was nothing wrong with the previous plan.  My wife and I discovered that we could be in for some physical problems and it might be better if I was to build a smaller layout for a smaller apartment.

 

I didn't think that it was necessary to convince anyone else so I made changes with out asking.

 

I am sorry if I caused any inconvenience to anyone.

 

Gerry

[Martijn Meerts]

Hey, it's your layout, you build it exactly how you want it to be :)

 

 

Even a simple loop can look really good with some nice scenery.

[kvp]

Thanks. No inconvenience just left wondering what was suddenly up with Z scale. Actually it's just 32% smaller so not a lot of space can be spared compared to N. Now i understand. Personally i think you should go with a smaller N layout first, but that's what you are doing. Please keep us updated on your progress.

[bill937ca]

You can have a good layout on 2.5' x 5' with radius up to R315mm.  With time I will build a double track  embankment line with a small tram line in the center. Eventually there will be up to 5 lines, an elevated station,  a shotengai, a shrine forecourt, a Hankai tramway like tram crossing and a few business buildings.

Edited May 24, 2016 by bill937ca

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

No worries,mits your RR and no need to give reasons at all! Life changes and we just have to roll with it. New plan sounds good to work in a smaller place. Also good you have experience in z scale! Have fun!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

I have been preping the module for this small layout and have got it worked out pretty good so far. 

 

Jeff, I will be using the green cloth to cover the Styrofoam.  This seems to be the easiest way to get a good uniform colour for grassy spots.  The only problem so far is that the cloth has been stored for years and is wrinkled badly where the folds were.  A good hot steam iron has been working pretty good so far but will need a couple more applications.

 

The green will be tied down on the edges by a strip of MDF which will be painted white and raised about 1/2 inch at the edges to prevent derailings from landing on the floor.

 

Waiting on replies from Noch about layouts.

 

Gerry

[gerryo]

Got the green cover on the tram layout.  Looks real good.

 

Placed some buildings on there as well as some tram track.  Short 4 - 30 degree pieces of track.  Darn.

 

I also placed the castle on there as well, and may be looking for another castle for the bigger layout, but in N scale this time.  But not something at $600.  CDN dollars.  Maybe 200.

 

Gerry

[gerryo]

When placing the castle on the layout, I tried to think out how to do a moat.  The Matsumoto Castle is a flatland type and to build a moat I would have to cut through the cloth ground cover and into the original Styrofoam. 

 

Would it be OK to raise the castle base up 25mm to have something to cut into?  And to allow a little depth for "water"?  And this would make sense of the bridge to get the people to the castle?  This would also mean that there would be a small gradient for the buses to get to the castle gate, which would be a bus stop.

 

Any ideas?

Gerry

Edited May 29, 2016 by gerryo

[cteno4]

actually for the moat you could probably get away with a pretty shallow one as they are usually pretty dark colored water (algae) in them and you really dont see far down into them. might experiment with just painting the moat the appropriate color and put a few layers of gloss medium over it (its just clear acrylic you can get at the craft or art store, modge podge is one brand name of the cheaper craft stuff). this will give you the appearance of water but not need to make a deep moat or fill with evrotex, epoxy etc which can be a real chore. you can even paint a few coi and other bits on the water before you do the gloss coat on top. also since the moat walls are steep underwater the color is pretty uniform in contrast to a pond where you have to paint a slightly different color for the shallow areas vs the deep areas.

 

give it a whirl on a piece of cardboard. it really is a nice way to do water thats a lot easier and gives you a lot more options than trying to pour water layer.

 

most castles also have grounds around the outside of the moat with some open area near the moat and trees and such and winding walkways up to the main entrances from the parking areas. having some trees will obscure the moat some as well and help the water illusion than having it all bare. 

 

you could do the whole castle, moat and ground on a hunk of styrene  or very thin plywood and then just plunk it down onto the layout. then easier to grade up a road or just have a sloped walkway up to the top of the base. would be easier to do the scenery work not in the center of the table.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[gerryo]

 

This is the latest development on the plan.  Still waiting on some tram track, and the BRT-A Bus set.  I can't finish the plan without more precise measurements on the bus road.  Everything is supposed to be on the way.  Trees and buildings sure do make a difference.

 

Final placement of the castle is a bit of a quandary.  The Bridge across the moat to the castle entrance and exit, obviously

has to end there, but in my plan, it has to come from where the bus stop has to be, and without the bus going all the way around the castle, the castle doors have to be placed where they can be seen, and still have access to the bridge.  Right now the obvious place for the bus stop is to the right of where the castle is, at the gap in the trees.  Any thoughts?

 

Gerry

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

Japanese castles and their grounds are a maze, not like euro castles with the more straight up main entrances and drawbridges. Even the moats take odd angled jogs at times and are not always parallel with the wall banks. It's all about confusing the enemy in their approach so they can be easier targets and giving you more angles to fire at them or surprise them around corners. There usually is a jog or two you have to take before you even enter the front doors as every corner is another place to surprise enemies. The entrances also are not all that flashy and apparent until you are right at them and even then they don't scream front door!

 

Matsumoto is actually at the corner of a larger island surrounded by a moat (there is even an outer moat as well). 2 walls are up against the moat and the other sides are exposed to the interior of the island. The entrance is tucked in between the center and right spires and faces out to the open area on the interior of the island. You could have the open area on the island facing the bus loop to the right and just put the bridge from the bus stop and parking area (gotta have that with tour busses) where convient there into the open area on the island as the bridge should not be right in front of the main doors. Once invaders get over the bridge you want them to have to change directions and go thru the open area then have to change directions again to go for the front door.

 

It's going to be tight in the space you have, but you can work on compressing the scene a lot. I think if you can get a small strip with some trees between the road and the moat, then a small more open area on the right side of the island with the castle entrance on it and the castle up against the moat on the left that will be enough. In reality the grounds around these castles are actually really big, but you don't have the room for that so you will need compression. But just try to make things irregular and not perfectly symmetrical. It's an interesting balance form in Japanese design really as these can castles and grounds are gorgeous, but are not neat and symmetrical, but at the same time they are in balance.

 

Might look at having a couple of small structure at the edge of the open area right near the bridge for a ticket/info booth and gift shop. Tomytec hot spring accessory set might have something. What are you using for the bridge? There is a small one in that set, but only like 8' wide. Greenmax might be cut down to fit your space.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/50241745@N05/17501018505

[cteno4]

gerry,

 

also came to mind that you will probably need some sort of low wall between the tram and the castle grounds. maybe the tomytec temple wall would work, but would need a few for your perimeter.

 

jeff

[gerryo]

I think that if I had the space to build a complete replica of the Matsumoto Castle I would not have started with a 2 foot by six foot layout.

 

My larger layout will be kept more secret until nearly finished.  It will be over 3100mm long and 1000mm wide.

 

Any more info than that will just have to wait.  I need help, not constant criticism. 

 

Gerry

[cteno4]

Like i said you will need to do a lot of scene compression, just trying to get you the main scene elements that will say japanese castle and work with that model plan. i think it was good to move it to one end of the layout so it could have a bit more room and stand on its own a bit.

 

jeff

[cteno4]

The building phase for this layout is here:

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/11639-tomytec-bus-tram-layout-build/

[gerryo]

These pics are what has happened to date.  Nothing has been placed permanently as I am not sure how to depict the BRT-A bus set, and quite a lot depends on it.  It will eventually come and all will be resolved.  Anyway this shows where the castle will be along with how good the green cover looks over the Styrofoam.

 

Gerry

[cteno4]

Looks to be a bit of room there for the castle stuff. Keep the moat thin and push the castle up against the moat in the back then in the front there will be room for a clear area around the front and castle entrance and room for the bridge to come into the clear space.

 

You can always just cut out some pieces of paper to put down for the bus street pieces to play with placing buildings and where all the roads will lead off the layout etc.

 

Might also think about if you can bring one road thru at an angle to help break up having a total right angle grid, this can make things more interesting visually and happens all over the place in Japan.

 

Jeff