Gerry's Tomytec Bus and Tram Module Planning

[JR 500系]

It's a nice plan, please allow me to ask some queries:

 

1) I agree with Jeff, the lines are quite hard to distinguish between ground level tracks and elevated ones...

 

2) There seem to be a merging track from ground to elevated to the front station, correct?

 

3) The yard looks quite tight, what is the radius you are looking at?

 

4) Can I assume that the ground level tracks are all trams?

 

5) The BRT is a nice idea ~ Compact and sweet

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

Thanks that helps!

 

Still think the yard will be tight. What is the problem with cad rail and metric? If it's just dealing with metric that very easy, just make yourself a table to do the crosswalk between the metric and English measurements. I think it will help see the layout better with the proper curves and yard necessities as well as full track roadbed width. That can start helping see how much area is left for scenery.

 

On the bus, the turn backs should be about 7" wide to the outside so it's going to be Closer to the tracks than than rough center appears and are more like 4" diva center as drawn.

 

The bus is running right along the walls of your castle, usually something of moat, grounds, trees etc around castles before the roads. Have you looked at what other building and roads will go around the bus route? Maybe a simpler but more snaking route might give you more scenery space and interesting path for the bus to follow that may be a little more surprising?

 

What was the reason for abandoning the old layout?

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

Hi Guys.  I will try to answer your questions first JR500.

 

1.   I think they are much clearer and colour coded on the last pic.

2.   There is the green track which rises from ground, as labeled, to the viaduct.

3.   I'm not sure what you mean by "radius" in the yard.  If you are asking about the turnouts, then they are 481-15 Kato turns, and in the last pic they turn to 2 inch centers which is 50mm.

4.   Trams will run on all ground level tracks.  But will not be the only things at times.

5.   The BRT has nice tight loops and along with the turnouts make for nice adaptable runs.

 

Now for yours Jeff.

1.   Most Kato and Tomix pieces are quoted in metric and inch measurements, and I hope I can believe them.  The tracks, as shown, are the center line of any that I use.

2.   I understood from the Tomytec drawing that the 66mm turns were used and are therefor much tighter.

3.   Since none of the track or bus routes will be glued down there will always be the chance to adjust the tracks as required.  As for a moat, this has been ignored for now, but as you can see there is a spot for the red bridge from the outside of the moat to the doors of the castle.  The other buildings that are around the castle on the outside of the moat will never be there as this is only a 4' x 9' layout and there are no models for them that I can find.

4.  I abandoned the old design because  there was even less room for buses, trams, and even the castle which is a flatland castle.  It was far better for the viaduct and Shinkansen traffic but they were not my primary interest.  You may, or may not remember that my initial interest in Japanese railroading was in trams and commuter trains.

 

I hope this clears up some queries, but I would be happy to answer some more if asked.

 

Gerry  ​

[gerryo]

All my plans for this and other layouts have been destroyed by Cadrail.  My wife and I were discussing this plan, we stopped for lunch, and when we came back there was nothing.  The only message we get is "This plan does not exist".

 

So having the need for plans, I purchased a copy of Any Rail, which hasn't been approved yet, so have worked all weekend with the temp. program.  So far so good, but is rather restrictive with only 50 items allowed.

 

This prog. allows both mm and inch uses, and so far I have been using the mm set.  Hooray for me!!!  And apparently I can switch between Kato and Tomix track outlines.  So far with the limits in size of the prog. I have completed the Yard section and have a question.  I know, katoftw, but I will always have questions.

 

What should the track spacing be in the yard?  I will have my Odakyu trains in and out of there.  These are 10 and 11 car sets.

 

Gerry

[kvp]

General track spacing is that you must leave enough space around the tracks to be able to fit a Kato loading gauge template (aka. unijoiner remover). If you have one, then draw two traces on a paper next to each other with at least a few mm distance between them and measure the track center distances.

 

On the other hand, 25 mm (around 1 inch) track distance seems to be the smallest practical one. (also used by fremo and Kato Unitram as dual track spacing) This is below the Kato 33 mm and Tomix 37 mm spacings.

[gerryo]

Thanx kvp.  I've always used 1 1/2 inch spacing which is app. 33 mm.  Using the #4 Kato turnout object in the program means the track spacing is a lot more than this but you can't shorten a #4 turnout.  On a 15 degree angle for the yard throat the space is about 160 mm. 

 

Gerry

[kvp]

Something is wrong there as a ladder built out of #4-s has 33 mm spacing. On the other hand, a #6 has a large spacing.

 

To make a ladder, you just add the turnouts to each other without any straights between them.

[cteno4]

Gerry,

 

You need to not have the the short extension space on the #4 points to get the 33mm spacing and then the 481 to curve or a #4 point (they are 481 radius).

 

Jeff

[gerryo]

Thanx guys.  You were right.  I was using the number 6 turns.

 

Do you need to use the 481 mm curves after the points or can you go to a smaller curve?  This would also save some space.

 

Gerry

[kvp]

It depends on the rolling stock. Generally R282 is the smallest that should be safe for non shinkansen trains and i would suggest keeping the R481 for shinkansens. The 481 has another benefit of keeping the 33 mm track spacing. (the 282 gets you the 25 mm spacing of unitram)

[gerryo]

I still must be doing something wrong with this AnyRail program.  I have set the grid to 25 mm.  The #4 turnout is 126 mm long.  That means that it is app. 5 inches long, and that works out to fit my grid almost perfectly.  That means that, if you place 2 - #4 turns head to tail, and use the same curves coming off each turn, then you cannot get one inch centers on your track spacing. 

I get 5 inch spacing at 90 degrees to the turnout.

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

Gerry 

[kvp]

The #4 turnouts are meant to be used with a 30 degree ladder with a curve only behind the last turnout. The turnouts are meant to be placed with their straight ends together and then the staight storage tracks onto the diverging routes without extra curves.

 

If you need a 90 degree tram like ladder, that would be hard with kato tracks as only their street tram tracks and the mini track set has 45 degree curvedturnouts for that. But normal trains can't run on them.

 

Personally i would go for a diagonal ladder from the Kato track template book.

[katoftw]

It depends on the rolling stock. Generally R282 is the smallest that should be safe for non shinkansen trains and i would suggest keeping the R481 for shinkansens. The 481 has another benefit of keeping the 33 mm track spacing. (the 282 gets you the 25 mm spacing of unitram)

Smallest curve for most non shinkansen Katos is R249.  Other manufacturers dont describe a minimum for non shinkansens.  But most handle a R249 fine.

 

The #4 turnouts are meant to be used with a 30 degree ladder with a curve only behind the last turnout. The turnouts are meant to be placed with their straight ends together and then the staight storage tracks onto the diverging routes without extra curves.

15 degrees, not 30.

[gerryo]

I had a 15 degree curve after the turnouts, which made a 30 degree change on the track, and this measured about 65mm spacing.

I then removed the 15 degree piece and this has made 33mm spacing.  This is what I want. 

 

I sure wish they would give me the full program.  It's very frustrating to only have 50 pieces to work with.

 

Gerry

[gerryo]

I finally got approval to use the AnyRail program.  and does it ever make a difference to the drawings.  Now everything is precise and reasonably believable.  I haven't figured out how to do different colours for different tracks, but I'm sure it will come eventually.

 

I have the first test done and it looks good with the needed changes.  One of the things I've noticed is the difference in the length of a piece of track when placed at different angles.  Amazing.  ha, ha.  Hard to get a drawing to the same size on each side.  Makes more use of the adjustable track.

 

Gerry

Edited April 22, 2016 by gerryo

[gerryo]

Can you copy a picture from an AnyRail file to this forum?  It says you can Export as a jpg. file.

 

Gerry

[Densha]

Yep. Just export it a a JPG file in Anyrail and then upload the JPG file to the forum as an attachment to your post. You can upload an attachment using the "More Reply Options" button next to the "Post" button. You will then be redirected to another page where you will see the "Attach Files" menu appear below the textbox you write your posts in.

[gerryo]

I just keep getting the notice  " You can't download this type of file."

 

Gerry

[Densha]

Are you sure it says download? You are uploading the file after all...

 

Also, there is a maximum file size of 2MB, so if your picture exceeds that size it also will not upload. In that case you should zoom out a bit in Anyrail and export it again so that the image becomes smaller.

[gerryo]

You are right about the "download" and "upload" , nevertheless, it still will not do it.

One more try, with a pic. that says it is 512 kb.

 

 

[Densha]

Well, I'm seeing a layout plan so it looks like it worked this time!

[katoftw]

When using the #4 points, you always need a S60L or a S60R to be coming off one of the directions.

[gerryo]

Thanks katoftw.  I forgot about that.  This revision made me take the time to check everything again, so I made a few alterations.

 

There is one track connection still, that is wierd.  The track shows that there is a small space between the two ends, and is slightly off a direct meet, but the progran connected them anyway. 

 

The rectangular loop in the center is shown as tram track, because there is no bus track yet.

 

I cant get a pic. yet, because I have had a problem with the computer again.  It'll come later.

 

Thanx again,

Gerry 

[kvp]

You don't really need the cut straights. The cut joiners can be used with any manually cut straight or curved piece, even with hand cut turnouts. (this allows turnouts to be on both branches of a #4)

[katoftw]

But he doesn't need that as all his points/turnouts have straights on at least one branch.  Don't complicate/confuse the subject if there isn't a requirement to do so.