Japanese H0 Lima Trains.

[Socimi]

Lima was a well-known Italian model train manufacurer, it's now part of the Hornby group.

 

During it's "golden age" (the '70s) Lima produced  H0 scale models of many countries, including USA, Australia, South Africa...     and Japan.

 

Here are some pics (all taken from the internet)

 

The worldwide famous 0 seres "Kodama" shinkansen, in italy it was called "The Tokaido".

 

 

 

The 103 series, also known as "The Legendary Kokuden", is one of the rarest Lima models. It was produced in Yellow, Lime Green, Orange and Sky Blue.

 

Yamanote Green:

 

 

Chuo-Sobu Yellow:

 

 

Chuo-Rapid Orange

 

Edited January 24, 2016 by DavideTreni

[Socimi]

As separate sets, there were also some freight wagons:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, htese models didn't saw a commercial success and the production of Japanese models terminated after a few years.

Edited January 24, 2016 by DavideTreni

[Welshbloke]

Those controllers with the 103 Series must have been a bit distressing too. They appear to have no intermediate steps between 0v and 9v.

 

Passengers are advised to hang on very tightly, or even better sit with their backs to a forward-facing wall or bulkhead...

 

Those Mercedes seem to have turned up on every Lima car transporter of the era, they even made N scale versions of them (which turned up on a car transported branded "British Leyland" for an even bigger identity crisis).

Lima also tried HO scale British models, with a similar lack of success. In that case OO was too entrenched, and the new models weren't special enough to make people want to change.

 

The basic tooling doesn't look bad (reused German bogies aside!), but I'm guessing modern Japanese HO uses a similar trick with scale to Japanese N in order to represent the narrower track gauge? This would make the Lima models noticeably smaller, even after detailing and weathering them.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Welshbloke

[kvp]

The shinkansen are 1:87 so the Lima one would be correct. Everything else is 1:80 which leaves us with the question if these ancient sets are 1:87 or 1:80?

 

Ps: The car transporter is a relabeled german car and the reefer looks like a us prototype one with air suspension (passenger emu) bogies. The rest seems to be good and unique models. I think there must have been at least a single loco for the freight cars?

[tridentalx]

Never seen these before. Thanks for sharing.

[railsquid]

Did Lima do any Japanese N scale stuff apart from Tony's self-combusting 485? There are odd bits of Lima's European/American N scale stuff which pop up here from time to time but I have yet to see anything specifically Japanese.

 

(My first proper locomotive was a Lima HO British class 33, I have a perverse fondness for the brand).

[marknewton]

...the reefer looks like a us prototype one with air suspension (passenger emu) bogies.

No' it's a fairly accurate model of a JNR prototype freight car, I just can't remember the wagon code at the moment. It was one of a group of designs from the late 60s/early 70s that were fitted with air suspension bogies and EP brake in addition to automatic air brake.

 

The car transporter is based on a Ku5000, but with German bogies.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

Edited January 24, 2016 by marknewton

[Nick_Burman]

No' it's a fairly accurate model of a JNR prototype freight car, I just can't remember the wagon code at the moment. It was one of a group of designs from the late 60s/early 70s that were fitted with air suspension bogies and EP brake in addition to automatic air brake.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

ReSa10000 - it's written on the side of the car :) ... they were used on the Ginrin (Hakata - Osaka) and Tobiuo (Nagasaki - Tokyo) express fish trains.

 

 

Cheers NB

[Nick_Burman]

Ps: The car transporter is a relabeled german car and the reefer looks like a us prototype one with air suspension (passenger emu) bogies. The rest seems to be good and unique models. I think there must have been at least a single loco for the freight cars?

 

In fact the car transporter is of Japanese prototype (Ku5000). The trucks are wrong though, Lima stuck some Y25s under the car...

 

Cheers NB

[railsquid]

Of general interest for Lima fans: http://lima-modeltrain-collectors.xobor.de/

[Takahama Trainwatcher]

Speaking of identity crises, Lima produced an attractive Australian model of the XPT in 2 different liveries. In my later childhood years I acquired a couple of sets, and a little while later an unpleasant realisation resulted in me sending off a furious letter to Italy.

Can anyone see the issue?

http://no1pdfplans.de.vu/freetrainlayouts/wp-content/upload/2014/03/train/xpt-model-train-set-1.jpg

http://mmiwakoh.de/Eigene%20Webs/5175%20XPT%20Countrylink.JPG

[railsquid]

The Mk3 coaches?

[kvp]

I don't get what's wrong with your class 43 HST set. Maybe that it's painted in australian colors instead of the UK InterCity one?

[kvp]

Btw i found some info:

http://mmiwakoh.de/Eigene%20Webs/lima-modellbahn/Japan1.htm

http://mmiwakoh.de/Eigene%20Webs/lima-modellbahn/Japan2.htm

 

and the australian HST-s:

http://mmiwakoh.de/Eigene%20Webs/lima-modellbahn/AUS1.htm

[Takahama Trainwatcher]

The Mk3 coaches?

 

I don't get what's wrong with your class 43 HST set. Maybe that it's painted in australian colors instead of the UK InterCity one?

Ha, ha, well done team. We have had half a Swedish tilt train tour here but I don't ever recall the British HST hitting our tracks.

[Davo Dentetsu]

That and the whole configuration of such units is vast.  Larger grilles, more vents, the headlights being on the top surface of the nose rather than the bottom...

[Takahama Trainwatcher]

Window shapes different.... and the scale is different too! It's just not right for the larger locomotives to be dwarfed by what should be smaller XPT coaches.

[Welshbloke]

Speaking of identity crises, Lima produced an attractive Australian model of the XPT in 2 different liveries. In my later childhood years I acquired a couple of sets, and a little while later an unpleasant realisation resulted in me sending off a furious letter to Italy.

Can anyone see the issue?

http://no1pdfplans.de.vu/freetrainlayouts/wp-content/upload/2014/03/train/xpt-model-train-set-1.jpg

http://mmiwakoh.de/Eigene%20Webs/5175%20XPT%20Countrylink.JPG

 

The XPT was derived from the HST power car, but with some fairly dramatic alterations to cope with higher temperatures and a lower top speed as the Aussie track wasn't up to 125mph standards at the time. I think the coaches were designed locally? They certainly weren't MK3s!

 

Hornby also used their HST tooling for an XPT, which you can see in that first photo link. The old Hornby model had boxier bogies and a small slot under the cab door (where the chassis clipped in). They currently offer a retooled HST in their main range, and the old Lima model with a new motor has appeared as a "Railroad" item (their cheap trainset range).

 

Talking of Lima mistakes, one notorious one here was the Class 117 DMU. Lima despatched someone to Laira depot in Plymouth in order to measure the real thing, and as a result the model's dimensions are pretty much spot on (they can look excellent with flush glazing, detailing, new bogies, a new underframe and a repaint). However, what Lima's researcher either wasn't told or didn't write down was that the unit they measured was a temporary formation with two DMBS (Driving Motor Brake Standard - fitted with a compartment for the guard and luggage) flanking a TC (Trailer Composite). The normal formation was DMBS-TC-DMS. As a result, Lima never tooled a DMS, and modellers were left with the job of cutting the sides out of the unpowered DMBS, then either replacing them with plastic sheet, or a chunk cut from a spare bodyshell, or after some years a kit became available containing two new side sections and an interior moulding.

[railsquid]

I must say the Lima N gauge 86's body detailing is pretty good when compared to a contemporary Dapol version, if you leave aside the deep cab window recesses. Unfortunately it's about 10% too short and about the same too wide.

[Socimi]

Those controllers with the 103 Series must have been a bit distressing too. They appear to have no intermediate steps between 0v and 9v.

 

Passengers are advised to hang on very tightly, or even better sit with their backs to a forward-facing wall or bulkhead...

 

 

No, they had unmarked intermediate positions.

 

The announcment is funny. Would be useful on our ATM 1928 Trams in Milan. They accelerate like a Jet.

[Socimi]

Speaking of identity crises, Lima produced an attractive Australian model of the XPT in 2 different liveries. In my later childhood years I acquired a couple of sets, and a little while later an unpleasant realisation resulted in me sending off a furious letter to Italy.

Can anyone see the issue?

http://no1pdfplans.de.vu/freetrainlayouts/wp-content/upload/2014/03/train/xpt-model-train-set-1.jpg

http://mmiwakoh.de/Eigene%20Webs/5175%20XPT%20Countrylink.JPG

 

That's the minimium!

 

Lets see what Lima done...

 

Has South Africa purchased German V80s and V100s?

 

 

 

 

Or Swiss EMUs?

 

 

Did Sweden purchased Italian E424 Electric locomotives?

 

 

Or as well, Belgian ones?

 

 

Did Germany purchased Italian D342 Diesel Locomotives?

 

 

 

 

 

And the Last one....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did Japan purchased....                 German V100s !?

 

 

And if you look closely youll' notice that these aren't real V100s... in fact they miss 50% of the real wheels...

 

Did someone took "cutting the budget" too seriously? 

 

 

 

But i should remember that these "Fantasy locos" were only found in the starter sets, wich were destinated to someone not-so-exigent with detials and realism (see childrens). 

Edited January 25, 2016 by DavideTreni

[Welshbloke]

I must say the Lima N gauge 86's body detailing is pretty good when compared to a contemporary Dapol version, if you leave aside the deep cab window recesses. Unfortunately it's about 10% too short and about the same too wide.

 

When Lima got it right, the results were usually pretty good. They made a GWR horsebox in OO for years which could be made to look very presentable if you changed the couplers, fitted better wheels, and did a bit of painting and weathering to it.

 

On the other hand, they made some weird errors like rolling stock which appeared to be on stilts. While this could be corrected by sawing the axleboxes off, removing the excess height, and gluing them back onto the chassis, it definitely comes under the heading of "It wouldn't have been any more work to get it right, so why didn't you?"

 

Passing off mainland European stock as British or inventing fictitious liveries is one thing when you're trying to sell cheap train sets, but the axlebox problem was on something intended to be a serious model!

Edited January 25, 2016 by Welshbloke

[railsquid]

The N gauge siphon has a relatively good reputation.

 

And at least my N gauge BR-liveried V100 has 4 axles (albeit "half-bogies").

 

I do applaud their sheer chutzpah for attempting to introduce the pancake motor to the Japanese market.

[Welshbloke]

I seem to be assembling a small collection of weird old N scale stuff. Still keeping my eyes open for a couple of non-corridor brake thirds and a composite to go with the early Farish ex-LMS 2P/4P (seems to be a bit confused which it is, the detailing is closer to one but the number is for the other) I bought a while ago. They need to be of the same vintage as the loco, as modern models will just make it look crude while something period-correct won't embarrass it.

 

I also have a few Minitrix N wagons which were German models given a spurious BR identity. A couple of long open wagons with oil drum loads, a bogie hopper and a LWB van.

[railsquid]

I do have a bit of a weakness for "historical" N gauge stuff, starting with a LoneStar class 24 and Mk1 coaches. Incredibly it actually runs, though the wheels are too big for modern pointwork.

 

One of my "sub projects" is assembling a representation of my first Lima HO trainset in N, as some of the wagons are available in both scales. No Lima 33 of course, but the old Farish one is a good equivalent.