N Gauge Yamanote station

[Socimi]

I'm thinking to build a Yamanote line station but i can't make my mind up.

I'm searching fo a station not too big (less than 10 platforms) and passibly more than only one island platform.

 

My base project is a layout to run Green Lime E231-500, 205, and maybe 103 series.

 

The main layout would be a station with eventually express tracks and a subway station underneath.

 

Freight operations aren't necessary since i'm focusing on a busy urban scene.

 

I was thinking about Ikebukuro station.

 

Track Plan

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Rail_Tracks_map_JR-E_Ikebukuro_Station.svg

 

It has all of what i need: 

 

A place to run Green Lime E231-500 and 205 series of two different lines (Yamanote and Saikyo),

Express trains (Narita Express) and lots of subway and private lines (Tobu and Seibu).

 

in order to conserve space ill' cut away the freight yard.

 

Do you think it's possible?

Edited January 21, 2016 by DavideTreni

[tossedman]

Anything is possible if you have the money and the space and the time.

[miyakoji]

Davide, you could make a hybrid "Yamanote-like" station. Take some characteristics you like from a big station and a small station and try to merge them into one (or however many you need). Nippori, Nishi-Nippori, and Harajuku are cool, I think.

[ToniBabelony]

I don't know if you have already experience with making layouts, but if this is your first, I'd suggest to start off small. If you really want to incorporate something from the Yamanote line, a simple island platform is more than enough. Read more on the thoughts of beginning here: http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/11023-getting-started/?do=findComment&comment=129484

 

Harajuku is interesting, since it's a very recognisable place, rather compact and has through tracks next to the Yamanote line.

 

Another option is Otsuka where you have the Toden Arakawa line passing underneath, leaving room for trams.

 

I hope this helps a bit!

[kvp]

For something simple, how about yurakucho? Yamanote and keihin-tohoku island platforms with tokaido express tracks (+optional shinkansen) and there is a metro line passing underneath. It has a really simple trackplan with no turnouts and situated next to curves so it would look natural on an oval too. Of course you can choose something more complex or a mixed fantasy one which has the best parts from all your favourite stations.

[JR 500系]

Interesting plan ~

 

 

As Davide san is trying to run the Yamanote and Saikyo line together, only Ikebukoro, Shinjuku, Shibuya, Ebisu and Osaki will be prototypically correct.

 

Aside from Osaki, all the other stations have private railways and metro running either through them or near them.

 

Though I would like the idea of Shinjuku as I like Odakyu, but it would be too large a project to get started on I guess... So Shibuya might be a good option, not too bad or too small.. Otherwise, the initial idea of Ikebukuro station is not bad too ~

 

But of course, if prototypical issues are not a concern (beware rail police!) then anything's possible ~  :)

 

Hoped that helps!

[railsquid]

 

A place to run Green Lime E231-500 and 205 series of two different lines (Yamanote and Saikyo),

Express trains (Narita Express) and lots of subway and private lines (Tobu and Seibu).

 

in order to conserve space ill' cut away the freight yard.

 

What freight yard?

 

How about Takadanobaba? Island Yamanote-line platform, the Seibu Shinjuku line station opposite, with the Saikyo Line (Yamanote Freight Line) running in-between, and the Tozai line underneath. You could also pretend the trams are still running.

 

[bikkuri bahn]

 a station not too small (less than 10 platforms)

 

:blink:

 

Anyway, I like Osaki.  Not too big, not too small, decent action. 

[ToniBabelony]

 

As Davide san is trying to run the Yamanote and Saikyo line together, only Ikebukoro, Shinjuku, Shibuya, Ebisu and Osaki will be prototypically correct.

 

Don't forget the stations in between Osaki and Ikebukuro where the Yamanote line stops, but the Saikyō line passes through. The Yamanote and Saikyō line run next to each other most of the time (the Saikyō line diverges a little at Yoyogi), so there is plenty of choice there. The Saikyō line is interesting, since it sees a massive variation of rolling stock. From the standard Saikyō line trains, Shōnan-Shinjuku line trains, freight trains, to the Tōbu Spacia (the latter only from Shinjuku northbound) and service runs of almost whatever you like.

 

Gotanda might also be an interesting option with the Ikegami line terminus over the Yamanote and Saikyō line. This is actually a station a friend and I want to recreate/interpret at some point with the Ikegami line having some kind of intense automated operation.

[kvp]

Based on this, Takadanobaba is viable and i see why Ikebukuro came up as most other stations along this stretch are either yamanote only stops or covered by a large building, hiding most platforms and trains, which is usually a problem for rail modellers.

 

(many british modellers use this as a theme and only model the open air approach tracks and hide the curves of their oval under the station building, only modelling one side of it as a scenery divider/backdrop, this would allow any building covered 10+ track station along the stretch in question)

[JR 500系]

Based on this, Takadanobaba is viable

 

I was going to suggest this too, as it has a variety of rails:

 

From wiki:

 

Takadanobaba Station (高田馬場駅, Takadanobaba-eki^?) is a railway station in the Takadanobaba area of Tokyo's Shinjuku ward, situated between the commercial districts of Ikebukuro and Shinjuku.

 

The station is a major commuting hub, linking the Seibu Shinjuku Line, Tokyo Metro Tōzai Line and Yamanote Line. It also serves the surrounding Takadanobaba area, known as a popular student district, and is linked by bus to nearby Waseda University. It is the busiest station on the Seibu Shinjuku Line, and the second-busiest in the Seibu Railway network after Ikebukuro Station. It is the ninth-busiest station in the Tokyo Metro network and the eleventh-busiest station in the JR East network.

Station layout[edit] Platforms[edit] Yamanote and Seibu Shinjuku Line[edit]

The Yamanote Line island platform and two Seibu Shinjuku Line platforms are located parallel to each other, and are connected by an overhead transfer concourse, as well as transfer gates at ground level by the main Waseda exit.

 

 

1 ■ Yamanote Line (Outer circle) for Ikebukuro, Ueno, and Tokyo 2 ■ Yamanote Line (Inner circle) for Shinjuku, Shibuya, and Shinagawa 3 ■ Seibu Shinjuku Line for Tanashi, Tokorozawa, Haijima, and Hon-Kawagoe 4 ■ Seibu Shinjuku Line Spare arrival platform used for Seibu-Shinjuku bound trains on weekday mornings only 5 ■ Seibu Shinjuku Line for Seibu-Shinjuku

 

The theme music from Astro Boy is played prior to each train departure from the Yamanote Line platform, a homage to the series being set in the Takadanobaba area. Chest-high platform edge doors were brought into use on the Yamanote Line platform on 21 December 2013.^[1]

The Yamanote Freight Line tracks (used by Saikyo Line and Shonan-Shinjuku Line services) pass Takadanobaba running between the Yamanote Line and Seibu Shinjuku Line tracks.

 

And it also has my favourite departure melody, the Astro Boy...

 

[railsquid]

I was going to suggest this too, as it has a variety of rails:

 

I suggested it first :P. It's kind of my home station.

 

Gotanda might also be an interesting option with the Ikegami line terminus over the Yamanote and Saikyō line. This is actually a station a friend and I want to recreate/interpret at some point with the Ikegami line having some kind of intense automated operation.

 

Would that "intense automatic operation" be provided by the Chinese ladies of the night who like to hang out around Sony-dori on the east side of the station after about 9pm? I do hope you intend to include this group of buildings (Google Streetmap view) too, at least one of which has a visible lean.

 

By the way I'd like to nominate Mejiro as the most boringest station on the whole loop.

[Socimi]

(Quote from me) ...not too small (less than 10 platforms)...

 

Sorry, i wrote wrong.

It should have been "not too big (less than 10 platforms)".   

Edited January 21, 2016 by DavideTreni

[Socimi]

What freight yard?

 

How about Takadanobaba? Island Yamanote-line platform, the Seibu Shinjuku line station opposite, with the Saikyo Line (Yamanote Freight Line) running in-between, and the Tozai line underneath. You could also pretend the trams are still running.

 

The one on the top left of the track diagram. 

Wait. Isn't it the EMU depot and not a freight depot? 

 

And no. This isn't my first layout. I beginned about 3 / 4 years ago with H0 scale.

Edited January 21, 2016 by DavideTreni

[railsquid]

The one on the top left of the track diagram. 

Wait. Isn't it the EMU depot and not a freight depot? 

 

Yup, EMU stabling point.

[kvp]

 

And no. This isn't my first layout. I beginned about 3 / 4 years ago with H0 scale.

I would suggest to choose a station that could be built with off the shelf parts, like platforms and station buildings. (there are a few stations on the yamanote that could be) Might not be 100% prototypical, but for a first layout, it's always a good idea to choose something that can be assembled relatively fast. (the actual size only depends on the available space and budget)

[Socimi]

The space avaible should be 2 X 1 meters but i might be wrong.

[railsquid]

The space avaible should be 2 X 1 meters but i might be wrong.

 

Well that pretty much rules out prototypical-length trains (13.5cm x 11 = 148.5cm) unless you can live with ca. 250mm curves immediately either side of the platform.

[kvp]

It's better to round up that 13.5 to 14 cm as non close coupled sets will be longer and that gives a nice 154 cm length for a Yamanote set. Cutting the trains in half down to 6-7 cars will give around 1 meters of platform length. This is actually only barely more than a third of a longer 15 car commuter set, but pretty managable even if there are some turnouts next to the platform ends. Using Tomix tracks allows turnouts in the curves, which means a bit longer trains or more complex trackwork.

 

As i said modelling only a fraction of a station and hiding almost the whole platform area under a building that acts as a scenery divider (and hides the half of the loop curves), allows prototypical lengths as none of the trains will be completly visible at any time and only a few cars will be visible while stopping at the platforms. It's not everyone's cup of tea though...

 

A layout of 4x1 meters allows prototypical length stations for most Tokyo area heavy commuter trains and could even fit without compression the smaller stations on the yamanote loop.

[Socimi]

Wich stations do you define as "smaller"?

 

Meguro?

 

Otsuka?

 

Sugamo?

Edited January 21, 2016 by DavideTreni

[velotrain]

 I do hope you intend to include this group of buildings (Google Streetmap view) too, at least one of which has a visible lean.

 

 

That's probably why it's shuttered ;-)

 

 

 

It also appears to be pushing over the two smaller buildings at the end of the block - including the corner bar with the historic distinction of being there "Since 2013".

 

 

Instead of the Chinese ladies of the night, perhaps the Brazilian Samba ones - although the first looks a tad anorexic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.city.shinagawa.tokyo.jp.e.ke.hp.transer.com/hp/page000022700/hpg000022615.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Socimi]

I cecked yesterday the dimesion of the baseboard and i found that they are: 1,10 m X 2,05 m; i also found another baseboard in the basement, it's dimensions are 1,85m X 78 cm.

Combining baseboard i would get a sreal lenght of 3,90 m (624 meters in N scale).

 

Now, here's a little map about the Ikebukuro station project: 

The (what-it-should-be) layout area is marked in red.

Ikebukuro map.bmp

Edited January 24, 2016 by DavideTreni

[kvp]

Ok, that's completly doable since you have thrown out the south turnout district, the enterance to the yard and the southern end of the platforms with the walkways. What remains is 4 platforms and half the tracks going into a curve while the rest going in another direction.

 

This means around 8 loops, 4 platforms, one ovearhead station and some way to loop the tracks back onto the other side. The station would fit on your board, but i'm not sure about the curves, even if you use the smallest 4 mainline ones (R282 and up).

 

I suggest to get a program named SCARM, draw your baseboard setup then try to put tracks on them. Both kato and tomix track systems are supported by the program.

[katoftw]

you baseboard aren't gonna be wide enough i dont think.  the station itself will be 30cm wide.  and you still need to loop around some tracks.  as above, i would get into a track planning program and see what you can come up with.

Edited January 24, 2016 by katoftw

[Socimi]

Ill' abandon the Ikebukuro station project,

I now realize that in order of making a good-working layout 60% of yur track will be not visible, and Ikebukuro has a lot of tracks, so it means it will cost a lot.

 

I'll diverge on a smaller station.

 

Takadanobaba looks intresting, is there any track plan?

Edited January 24, 2016 by DavideTreni