Kato platform lighting

[gavino200]

5 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

yeah the more, tuned down leds the better as the better the coverage and less hot and dark areas. do you have some white paper behind the leds to help diffusion?

 

I tend to agree. So does the boy. But wife likes the shadows. I'm going to make a fiver tomorrow for an exciting judging session.

 

5 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

the three in parallel in sets you just wire to a master power feed up to the roof should be easy. each can have a small resistor at the end of the chain to attach to the main feed then throttle that back with your main pot. i think if you used static resistors on each group of three to drop them to 5ma per led from 5v, then one of the .5w trimmer pots should be fine to trim down there like 4 sets of three as long as you are just trimming a bit more off. these could mount in the platform base and just one per platform and adjust thru a hole there and then just plug into a 5v power bus. or wire back to a central panel.

 

I'm planning on doing four to a resistor on a  5V bus. The resistor will be kept external, in case I need to re-balance it in it's new location this summer.

 

5 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

wrapping wire works well for this stuff, way easier to solder than magnet wire and sturdier. its about the size of a 1" electrical conduit.

 

Yes. Good idea. Grey wrapping wire would be easier to work with. Maybe I'll do the next trial with it and compare. Though I did come up with a nice method for making my LED chain. I marked the desired position of the LEDs. Then I copied the position onto a piece of "tiny lumber". Then E6000 glue to fix the LED's to the lumber. Line up the magnet wire and scrape off insulation where soldering will occur. Then solder magnet wire to the LEDs. Lastly, remove LEDs from the 'tiny lumber' and glue to the platform.  This method makes it quite easy to make a  chain of LEDs.

 

5 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

another idea is to use diffusers over the leds and run them a bit brighter (inobu where are U?!), but getting a good diffusion material can be a bit of work and it tends to just make your transition from brighter and dimmer areas more gentle.

 

Perhaps a small square of paper. After I decide between the 3 and the 5 LED strip, I'll use the loser to experiment with this idea. Yes, where are you inobu?? (Shakes fist in the air)

 

5 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

also need to test under the lighting you want when you are doing lighting. some dont like total dark in the room, so some dim lighting. lots of lighting happens during the day as well in many places but at scale you have to exaggerate it there to make a daylight lighting effect thats blasting at an evening/night lighting. 

 

 

We do all of the above. Including, live sundown and sunup as the train room has dimmer switches.

[cteno4]

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

 

I tend to agree. So does the boy. But wife likes the shadows. I'm going to make a fiver tomorrow for an exciting judging session.

 

 

Shadows are definitely part of great lighting. When we would shoot exhibit models we would make kookalorus to mottle the incoming light to create interesting shadows that you get in real life with multiple interior lights that you don’t get lighting a model with a few photo floods.

 

but platforms are situations where they light for very even lighting as shadows can cause tripping. Street lighting tends to have all those interesting shadows, platforms tend to be pretty shadow free.

 

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

I'm planning on doing four to a resistor on a  5V bus. The resistor will be kept external, in case I need to re-balance it in it's new location this summer.

 

 

You can do a 2 part resistor, one for each module to set it at max and then a trimmer to feed 2-4 modules on a platform to trim it down a bit if needed in place. This way you do t have to run 2-4 pairs of wires up the columns

 

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

Yes. Good idea. Grey wrapping wire would be easier to work with. Maybe I'll do the next trial with it and compare. Though I did come up with a nice method for making my LED chain. I marked the desired position of the LEDs. Then I copied the position onto a piece of "tiny lumber". Then E6000 glue to fix the LED's to the lumber. Line up the magnet wire and scrape off insulation where soldering will occur. Then solder magnet wire to the LEDs. Lastly, remove LEDs from the 'tiny lumber' and glue to the platform.  This method makes it quite easy to make a  chain of LEDs.

 

 

I was just thinking of the wrapping wire to go up to the modules. 

 

You can do them just like the commercial ones with uninsulated wire (jewelry and floral wires work for this just have to find ones that solder well). I got some great fine, but very rigid fine wire rods at the craft stores years ago that was for wrapping small flowers and soldered really well and very little resistance. Sadly I’ve not found it again, but I keep looking as it was perfect for this.

 

one trick to hold the parts togherer for soldering is to put a strip of blue tape sticky side up on the bench and tape it down on the end. Nice to hold your parts while soldering and the tape is pretty nonflammable.

 

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

Perhaps a small square of paper. After I decide between the 3 and the 5 LED strip, I'll use the loser to experiment with this idea. Yes, where are you inobu?? (Shakes fist in the air)

 

Since you probably cant ever see the angle up to see the lights a strip of paper all down the roof may help spread the light more.

 

1 hour ago, gavino200 said:

 

We do all of the above. Including, live sundown and sunup as the train room has dimmer switches.

 

Yeah this is one of those mind’s eye things again as we look at the layout from an airplane view most of the time and there you see night lighting even in urban areas as pools of light and the rest of the world dark (this is how the layout looks with no room light and only layout light), but down in the world at night with lights around things are no longer totally dark and the pools of light are more diffuse to our view, so hence why some like to not have the lights totally out on the night scene as our mind’s eye will remember our usual ground more diffuse night POV rather than the airplane view we see only once and a while...

 

jeff

[gavino200]

40 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

Shadows are definitely part of great lighting. When we would shoot exhibit models we would make kookalorus to mottle the incoming light to create interesting shadows that you get in real life with multiple interior lights that you don’t get lighting a model with a few photo floods.

 

but platforms are situations where they light for very even lighting as shadows can cause tripping. Street lighting tends to have all those interesting shadows, platforms tend to be pretty shadow free.

 

I agree. My money's on five.

 

40 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

 

You can do a 2 part resistor, one for each module to set it at max and then a trimmer to feed 2-4 modules on a platform to trim it down a bit if needed in place. This way you do t have to run 2-4 pairs of wires up the columns

 

There's only one pair of wires per section going up. The LEDs are soldered in line on the same pair of magnet wires. Like ties on a track. Same technique as the light chains I bought from Ali Express. They're actually much easier to make than I would have guessed. 

 

40 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

I was just thinking of the wrapping wire to go up to the modules. 

 

You can do them just like the commercial ones with uninsulated wire (jewelry and floral wires work for this just have to find ones that solder well). I got some great fine, but very rigid fine wire rods at the craft stores years ago that was for wrapping small flowers and soldered really well and very little resistance. Sadly I’ve not found it again, but I keep looking as it was perfect for this.

 

Oh, yes. I was planning on doing that anyway. There's no way I'm running magnet wire under the table. But it's nice on the underside of the platform as it's close to invisible, and when seen, it's credible as scale wiring.

 

40 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

 

one trick to hold the parts togherer for soldering is to put a strip of blue tape sticky side up on the bench and tape it down on the end. Nice to hold your parts while soldering and the tape is pretty nonflammable.

 

 

I'll try it. Usually I just hold one side in a "forceps on a stand", and hold the other with my fingers. For me, the key is to use loupes. 

 

40 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Since you probably cant ever see the angle up to see the lights a strip of paper all down the roof may help spread the light more.

 

 

Nah, I want to be able to get right in there with my eyeball and not ruin the illusion. But I do used that technique when lighting train carriages. 

 

40 minutes ago, cteno4 said:

Yeah this is one of those mind’s eye things again as we look at the layout from an airplane view most of the time and there you see night lighting even in urban areas as pools of light and the rest of the world dark (this is how the layout looks with no room light and only layout light), but down in the world at night with lights around things are no longer totally dark and the pools of light are more diffuse to our view, so hence why some like to not have the lights totally out on the night scene as our mind’s eye will remember our usual ground more diffuse night POV rather than the airplane view we see only once and a while...

 

I agree. It does look best with some ambient light. But it's also fun to look at in the pitch dark where you can only make things out by LED light. Thanks for all you ideas and input Jeff. They are much appreciated.

[gavino200]

I decided to go with three LEDs per platform. I think five would be superior, but LEDs 2 and 4 would be difficult to place due to the signs that have already been installed.

 

If anyone reading this has a Kato platform, still in box/fresh from the store, that they intend on lighting, I'd strongly recommend adding the lights before detailing the platform. 

 

[gavino200]

These the finished lit platforms. Four circuits. Each with a protective 300 Ohm resistor and a variable resistor. The variable resister (dimmer switch) allows me to turn the brightness up and down a bit. For example, for this picture the LEDs were turned down very low to look right in the photo. When they're right "in person", they look like burning suns through the camera. 

 

[EdF]

Maybe not the best thread, but I am starting to assemble my 23-150 platforms and a few parts if glue on would capture the roof.  Does anyone have experience with adding the 23-000 light kits? Can they be added later, I think they can slid in from the ends, but if so what prevents their movement?  Or do they need to be inserted earlier?

Thanks, Ed

[gavino200]

I have no experience with them. They didn't exist when I first attempted to light my platforms. Here's the entry in the 2019 Kato catalog. Perhaps someone can translate. It looks like the roof has to be removed. Would you mind taking a picture of the entire lighting set contents.

 

By the way, I would advise against using CA (super glue) or any very strong or permanent glue. It's not unlikely that you'll want to get in there again sometime. I thoroughly recommend E6000 glue. You can get it in any hardware store (in the US). It's strong enough for almost any modelling need, but can be easily removed later with zero damage to the structure. It's quite fast drying, but slow enough to allow you to adjust the piece for a good while. Also, it's viscous, so it sort of holds the piece immediately to a degree. If you do use it, I recommend squeezing a tiny bit onto a post it, and then applying it with something like a tooth pic. Use a new blob for each application. It's only optimal for a short time after leaving the tube.

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Adhesive-Fiberglass-Masonry-Concrete-Carded/dp/B07DS7V5VD/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1546534556&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=e6000+glue&psc=1&smid=ATZ61JQHZC6XB

 

It also comes in tiny tubes if you just want to try it out.

[gavino200]

Using google translate camera from the screen, it doesn't look like Kato is saying anything useful here. Just the basic facts. But I'm bet, from a picture of the contents we could crowdsource a solution. Also can you scan or photograph the instruction leaflet?

Edited January 3, 2019 by gavino200

[EdF]

the yellow stripes you see, you are seeing them through gaps in the light diffuser and electric rails.  The clusters of 4 mounts in a T, the inner most position lines up over those gaps, so the 2 light signal would hand through that.  Also the signs over the platform edges mount to the roof and the clear plastic of the diffuser. 

[EdF]

They don't mention the lights that I see.  But there is a warning to only remove the roof and the 2 plates in the platform. 

[EdF]

Maybe they clip over the rails.  Based on the light pic, there is nothing at those locations that look like they hold the lights.

[gavino200]

My speculation/guess is that you assemble the basic structure first leaving the roof off. Then it looks like the light chips go in from above, and span across the width of the diffuser with one contact on each rail. I'd bet that the light chip fits into those two holes in the diffuser.

 

My gut feeling is to definitely install the light set first, and then add the platform details. That way you also get to decide where to put the signs so they won't block the light. 

 

Wait a bit, and see if anyone else thinks otherwise. 

 

Here's the schematic btw for anyone whose interested.

 

https://www.katomodels.com/product/n/kinko_homu_dx

[gavino200]

6 minutes ago, ecfitzgerald said:

Maybe they clip over the rails.  Based on the light pic, there is nothing at those locations that look like they hold the lights.

 

I bet there's something. Kato is very ingenious with these thing. Try setting it up exactly as in the Kato catalog picture. The take the light chip and bring it to exactly the position you see them putting it. A dollar says you'll find some tiny little bracket for it. 

[gavino200]

I think these little feet (red circles) on the light chip, fit in these little grooves (black circles) one the diffuser.

 

 

[gavino200]

I bet they press fit and won't slide.

[gavino200]

On 1/3/2019 at 11:11 AM, ecfitzgerald said:

Maybe they clip over the rails.  Based on the light pic, there is nothing at those locations that look like they hold the lights.

 

Were you able to work it out?

[EdF]

I don't have the kit, but if don't glue in the roof parts and I made a way to open the platforms even when mounted so I can add later, though if you look in my layout thread you can see how I did it.