Doraku Bozu

[velotrain]

I'm potentially interested in some On30 kits from about four years ago, and wondered if anyone has ever seen them at any of the "reseller" sites? 

Since I take this to be a very small manufacturer, I suspect few were produced, and these went to Japanese narrow gauge modelers.

 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?typ1_c=104&cat=rail&sold=0&state=0&sortid=0&target=scale&searchkey=1%2F48

I'm most interested in the mine cars and the tipping ramp (near bottom of page).

 

thanks

[Welshbloke]

If it comes to hunting for a substitute, then I might suggest looking up Fleischmann's 5501 tipper and 6481 unloading ramp.

 

Unfortunately both are discontinued, but they made thousands of the things so it shouldn't be impossible to get hold of some. It's HO scale but quite overscale, so I'd say they'd look fine with a small On30 loco (especially if you add some 1:48 details like scale couplers, handbrake wheels, etc).

 

Not as neat as the Doraku Bozu kits and the loading ramp would be too narrow for a loco, but might be worth considering as a last resort.

[ToniBabelony]

The website of Dōraku Bōzu is here, including the email address of the owner: http://dourakubozu.web.fc2.com/ and the page concerning the O Narrow side-tippers: http://dourakubozu.web.fc2.com/sub30.htm (playing with sand for adults). Maybe he still has some in stock personally or is planning a re-run when there is enough interest.

 

These are modelled after an example nearby where the owner has his shop:

 

 

In action:

 

[velotrain]

If it comes to hunting for a substitute, then I might suggest looking up Fleischmann's 5501 tipper and 6481 unloading ramp.

 

Years ago I used the N-scale versions (also oversized and rather crude) for a HOn30 mining micro layout.

[velotrain]

Thanks for posting that Toni.  It's too bad that neither video (there's also a longer one of the proto) actually shows the tipping operation.  I'm guessing that it's quite different than the models, as I didn't see the lifting disk on the proto mine wagons.

 

For models, automated filling is the more complex part.  I have seen an HO coal "flood loading" module in operation at a show.

 

I was surprised by the sloping cab roof on the mine engine - I wonder what it's for?  At first I thought it might be the profile they cut the tunnels to, but I'm not sure.  Although, it's even harder to imagine that there's anything intrinsic to the engine that causes it.

 

Like many Japanese sites, I find his very frustrating.  Long lists of items with no images.

[kvp]

[cteno4]

world kogei had a similar little shunter

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10292593

 

same asymmetrically sloped roof.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[velotrain]

kvp - I saw the "cover image" for that video and skimmed through it using the small image at the bottom of the screen, and didn't notice the dumping scene.  I just went through it again and found ~20 seconds of the dumping operation.  It even uses the same ramp as the model kit, but it looks to me like the mechanism on the tipper cars is different.  What I think I'm seeing is something sliding out, and then retracting.  Any other takes?  (analysis - not video ;-)

 

Jeff - I had noted that World Kougei kit in the past and thought it was the ugliest model engine that I had ever seen.  I don't know if the proportions are true to the proto or not, but it looks really toy-like.  Perhaps even more homely than the Aoshima mini tram:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Size-Train-Brown-N-scale-Aoshima-87220-/361340731071?hash=item542195febf

 

[velotrain]

Well, it's not going to win any beauty pageants, but the proto is definitely more attractive than the model. 

Perhaps this is one case where World Kougei should have gone for accurate dimensions and detail with a brass model.

 

 

Can any Japanese members tell us why the cab roof is shaped like that?

It looks like the Nakagawa railway preservation society has two of them.

 

http://www.ns-tetsudo.com/train/1067/list.html

 

[kvp]

The tipping seems to be modelled nicely. The loco drives on the left, so the slope is alwasy towards the tunnel wall.

 

What slides out is actually attached to the bottom of the cars and it's sliding out due to the asymmetric rotation point of the cars. Imho the kit gets it right.

 

For loading in smaller scales, the best way is to use a conveyor belt from a sump with a slide from the top as it allows fine control during the loading process by controlling the belt motor with a pushbutton.

 

The cab roofs are shaped normally, but one quarter is missing to provide a walkway between the two ends. This results in this funny shape. Accidentally the roof has a similar arch as some german kof shunters, except they have full cabs and side doors, which can get problematic if the tracks or various equipments are spaced too close in a yard or factory.

Edited December 19, 2015 by kvp

[cteno4]

Charles,

 

It's not that bad at all. I got the grade up etched brass grills for it. Model looks close to the photo, needs painting to get rid of the plastic look and alternate couplers other than rapidos. It's a little work loco, not designed for a beauty pageant! Nicer lines that the one in the video that started the thread! Is the perfect one for an arunine kit.

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

For loading in smaller scales, the best way is to use a conveyor belt from a sump with a slide from the top as it allows fine control during the loading process by controlling the belt motor with a pushbutton.

 

That isn't automated.  It would be nice to have a system that detects the train and fills the car(s) without you controlling it all the time. 

The traditional difficulty is coming up with a system that can consistently measure out the right amount of material.

 

These cars are On30, so it's not really a small scale.

I'm sure the weight of the brass helps keep them on the track during the dumping process.

Most examples I've seen have required a stabilizer of some sort to keep the car itself from toppling over along with the load.

 

I noticed that the proto wagons jiggle around during emptying just as the model ones do.

I was going to say tipping, but that's not really the case here, as the ramp forces the side door to pivot open.

[velotrain]

Nicer lines that the one in the video that started the thread!

 

I could easily debate that, but won't bother.

[kvp]

That isn't automated. It would be nice to have a system that detects the train and fills the car(s) without you controlling it all the time.

The traditional difficulty is coming up with a system that can consistently measure out the right amount of material.

The classic solution is the belt with flaps. Each car that triggers a detector gets a preset amount of belt slots. (best done with a stepper motor). If the detector is an axle counter skip the first N axles as that's the loco, then trigger the loading at every M axles where M is the number of axles on a car. This has been done with lego and an old lego rcx robot controller (programmable) brick.

[velotrain]

The cab roofs are shaped normally, but one quarter is missing to provide a walkway between the two ends. This results in this funny shape.

 

I just noticed your edit.  What you say is true for the small shunter that Jeff has.  However, I notice that it appears to have a second cab door on the low roof side.

 

 

 

 

The mine engine only has entry on the high roof side, and it looks like a control cabinet is on the low roof side, so the roof may be as it is only because there was no reason to make it any higher on the one side.  As mentioned earlier, I thought it may have been related to the shape of the mine tunnel, but at least from what we can see of it in the video, it looks as if there is plenty of space - this doesn't mean that there is no narrowing farther in.

 

 

Jeff - post a photo of the completed engine and I "may" reconsider.  As previously stated, I think the proto looks much better than the kit - which isn't saying much ;-)

[velotrain]

The classic solution is the belt with flaps. Each car that triggers a detector gets a preset amount of belt slots. (best done with a stepper motor). If the detector is an axle counter skip the first N axles as that's the loco, then trigger the loading at every M axles where M is the number of axles on a car. This has been done with lego and an old lego rcx robot controller (programmable) brick.

 

For HOn30 (?) or On18, I think you could actually do it using Tomix sensors.  If using a TCS mode with a second "absolute stop" sensor, the wagons could physically trigger the release of the material - hopefully at the locations where the tipping cars would stop ;-)  With only one sensor, you would need to carefully adjust sensor location, train speed, and the momentum setting to have the wagons stop at the right place. 

 

I have HOn30 tippers, but they're just too small to make this practical at that scale-gauge.

[velotrain]

This discussion has caused me to think of the Eneret micro layout by the Dutchman Otto Schouwstra, who built perhaps the most elegant unloading device ever for the peat wagons.  He also designed and produced his own sound system, and on his display layouts the sounds are synched to what is happening with the trains. 

 

I remember seeing a wonderful video of this layout, but cannot find any mention of it on the net.  I have written to Otto to see if it is possibly still available somewhere.  However, there are four photos of the layout on his site, and also a link to his old site - which has other images, including his earlier layout.

 

http://www.ossynths.nl/photos-eneret

 

Somewhere, in my archives, I have one of his Superspud mechanisms for the Scale Link 1:32 Simplex.

He no longer makes the sound systems, but does produce his own - improved - static grass applicator, and sells it in multiple configurations.

[velotrain]

This isn't the same mine, but the wagons and tipping device are extremely similar, and it was clearly filmed by someone with insider access - showing extreme close-up detail of the dumping operation.  There's also a very clear shot of the "fifth wheel" riding up the ramp.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2016 by cteno4