In-train camera

[Socimi]

Is it possible to insert a micro camera in a N scale model?

I'm sure it could be done in a H0 or OO model, but i don't know if such small cameras exist.

 

[katoftw]

Yes - Kato for example sell train sets fitted with cameras.  I'm sure other manufacturers would also.

[kvp]

Tomix actaually made an offical set with a built in camera. If the motor is not in the front car (which is pretty common for japanese multiple units), then it's relatively easy to add a camera. Look for sugar cube sized ones with digital radio output and run it from a small battery for an interference free picture.

[NXCALE]

Hi. You chose an excellent topic.

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[mrp]

I was thinking of trying this myself using one of the new miniature WiFi Action cams.

 

A company called MOTO WORKS makes a really nice lowered-body wagon for carrying a Sony HDR-AZ1 WiFi Action Cam - but it looks to be out of stock now.

 

 

People seem to be also having some success using a Panasonic HX-A1H mounted on a Tomix 2759 KOKI 200.  Here’s a blog post showing that setup.

 

 

The video looks very clean.

 

 

[kvp]

So, we could understand that there would be until three different signals being carried on the tracks: power voltage, Constant Lighting (CL) and the video signal itself.

That's just actually 2 signals as the CL and drive PWM signals are just two different frequency and percentage PWM signals mixed together digitally before the drive ic. The output is digitally chopped full power. The return video can be a higher frequency, low amplitude analog signal on top that could be inserted and extacted with filter caps. Other trains that have noise cancelling could easily eat it though, so fully power routing turnouts are a must. (kato ones only cut the frog side rails)

[NXCALE]

I would say that the TC-9 does not provide the best image. Online videos show people testing it. Sometimes it looks good, sometimes not so much. Better have a look online and judge by yourself. The image of the Tomix camera is better than the Kato one (my opinion) but it is not HD. I also think that the image quality of several HD cameras (small ones) could be above of the former ones

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[cteno4]

There have been a number of threads on thsi subject in the past to take a look at (although I know there were more but search can be crude...)

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/1738-camera-car/?hl=%2Bvideo+%2Bcamera&do=findComment&comment=42344

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/2394-on-board-camera/

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/5962-kato-camera-equipped-train/

 

And helping clean power using capacitors

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/6745-idea-e-guided-loco-decoupler-for-standart-knuckle-couplingsshunting-with-cam/?p=75612

 

It's a tradeoff as getting live video means transmission and lower resolution. Recorded allows higher definition but not live viewing/running. A few of the new action cams can do wifi with better and better streaming. Drones also punching the miniaturization, resolution and quality of FPV systems so will just be getting better for perhaps a combined system, but I doubt one that is all hidden...

 

Myself and another club member have the tc-9 unit. Not sure if it's still in production (was originally done by a company that made mini endoscopic cameras!). It's decent price and function for a air transmission system. It does waiver now and then depending on who's going on in the room and where we see up the receiver with the layout. Fine for watching live running, in fact the little signal glitches actually make it seem more live to the public. It can be an attractive nuisance as folks want to figure out which train has the camera by putting their hands in front of the trains and also trying to wave into the camera (adults are as guilty of kids in doing this and causing digital derailments nut at least the kids listen when you ask them to stop, adults get upset with you for warning them--even if you ask nicely!)

 

The tc-9 fits nicely in most trains, biggest issue is you need to use a train with a larger windshield that goes down pretty low to get max viewing area, so this limits installation. But hiding the live cam is more fun, especially for the public. Tomix is nicer transmission thru the rails but much pricier. Some higher frequency transmission spy cams have come out as well the folks have used in rc stuff that give improved signal. Unfortunately HD transmission is not something small or cheap enough for n scale, I have seen a few wifi ntsc that was pretty clear, but they did not fit in a car! One took up too large flat beds.

 

I played with a few of the cheap rf transition spy cams. Many are a form factor too big for fitting inside a train, but a few are and give about the same quality as the tc-9 transmission, but you need to roll your own power control and storage systems for the. Again getting better and cheaper!

 

I've played with the cheap low res spy cams to micro sd recorders. They work, but have poor resolution usually NTSC even if labeled 720. Saturation and contrast are also poor. One Bennie of these cheap spy cams is the lens and photo receptors are tiny and some mounted in a small flex pc board connector so getting the lens situated right is easy. although a recording camera really does not need to be hidden it just makes life easy to get the camera lens to jsut the right viewing spot and you can also easily set them to look out the side and get a fun out the side window view of your layout!

 

I've been waiting for some of the HD minicams to get cheaper and smaller and do like what mrp linked, these will make nice quality videos and hopefully allow focus to be set. One issue always is depth of field with these. Most of the earlier cameras used simple pinhole lens that has very limited focal depths and fixed focus.

 

One issue with all these cameras is the fact the look straight ahead. On the tight curves of layouts this leads to disorientation on curves as the camera remains looking in the direction of the tangent all the way thru the curve, not into the curve like we tend to do when looking out the front of a vehicle by turning our heads! Folks have made some interesting cam mechanisms to turn train cams into the curve (we had some discussion on this in the past but couldn't find it) to get a better view.

 

Also there is the debate if it's better to shoot thru a cab window (and have a frame of reference around the video or jsut all video. The all video can sort of make you feel like you are strapped to the front of the train! But cab window eats up video space and can screw the picture and focus up some...

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

How can a Mac isight cam work on 12v? I have an extra from a rebuild for a client.

 

I ike the video. Best quality yet.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Webskipper

[cteno4]

Web,

 

Do you mean the old iSight FireWire webcam, if so it needs to be connected directly to a Mac via FireWire so wouldn't work for a train cam.

 

On the built in iSight cameras I'm guessing they are 3 or 5v, but it's most likely a digital output that would not go into traditional video transmitters.

 

There are drop down power converters to go from 12v down to 3 or 5v

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-6-0V-12V-to-5V-AMS1117-5V-Power-Supply-Module-Voltage-Regulator-AMS1117-/291425759934?hash=item43da5432be:g:kN0AAOSwEeFVI0ic

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-DC-DC-Step-Down-Converter-Module-Adjustable-3V-5V-16V-Power-For-RC-Plane-/262130707028?hash=item3d08352a54:g:3kYAAOSwwbdWPHtF

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited December 14, 2015 by cteno4

[Guest Closed Account 1]

The custom Depressed Center Flat Car and Sony cam seem like best combo yet.

 

Maybe fuse 2 micro train depressed flat cars to get the room necessary?

[katoftw]

Those in car camera that are all the rage nowadays run on 12V.  And a lot smaller than the exampled Sony handicam.  2 flat cars, one for the camera and one for 8x AA 1.5V batteries or similar.

Edited December 14, 2015 by katoftw

[railsquid]

Myself and another club member have the tc-9 unit. Not sure if it's still in production (was originally done by a company that made mini endoscopic cameras!).

 

 

Still available on Amazon Japan. Mrs. Squid has decreed we should get one, and who am I to refuse?

 

 

I've played with the cheap low res spy cams to micro sd recorders. They work, but have poor resolution usually NTSC even if labeled 720. Saturation and contrast are also poor. One Bennie of these cheap spy cams is the lens and photo receptors are tiny and some mounted in a small flex pc board connector so getting the lens situated right is easy. although a recording camera really does not need to be hidden it just makes life easy to get the camera lens to jsut the right viewing spot and you can also easily set them to look out the side and get a fun out the side window view of your layout!

 

 

I've got a cheap USB "spy cam", build quality is a bit dodgy; picture OK but not perfect, though good enough for me at the moment. I mount it on a flat car and push it. On another forum someone has added a lense to the same model to improve the focus, though I haven't seen the results.

Edited December 14, 2015 by railsquid

[JR 500系]

Oohhh.... interesting!

 

Now, where can we get this online?  :)

[kvp]

Folks have made some interesting cam mechanisms to turn train cams into the curve (we had some discussion on this in the past but couldn't find it) to get a better view.

For lego, it was a common trick to mount the camera on to the top of the front bogie's pin or in a short 2 axle car. Once i tried a 2:1:1 transmission so 10 degrees of bogie movement rotated the camera 20 degrees. It was nice in the sharp curves but got too shaky while crossing turnout districts.

 

For N, i would say a 2 axle flatcar would work with the batteries on the next car. For bogie cars, the shorter, the better, even if you need two cars for camera and battery. (and a 3rd for the motor)

[cteno4]

 

Oohhh.... interesting!

 

Now, where can we get this online?  :)

Squid says Amazon Japan! When we got ours a few years back we got it straight from the company and it took a little fiddling to get the order done. It was right after they released it. They were like $100 at the time and I think the yen was high.

 

Squid can you post the Amazon.jp link? We could still order them outside Japan or thru mtp that way!

 

Jeff

[railsquid]

Squid can you post the Amazon.jp link? We could still order them outside Japan or thru mtp that way!

 

 

Here you go: http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B005LNEZAW/

 

Amazon 3rd party seller, shop in Akihabara. I may go along and have a look there once I've shaken this cold off.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Web,

 

Do you mean the old iSight FireWire webcam, if so it needs to be connected directly to a Mac via FireWire so wouldn't work for a train cam.

 Yeah, I couldn't find anyone using it outside the PC.

 

I really like the super depressed flat car and mini handicap setup. It has modern hd digital images.

 

The motoworks car is about $100USD. It is an ultra low, extra long custom metal depressed car. So the material must be stiff enough to support the camera and not slam against both rails.

 

Maybe something for the girlfriend to order for me during next Japan trip.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Webskipper

[cteno4]

There a a scad of the small had action cams out there these days. Mainly getting one that will fit and make your layout clearances. Also need to make sure the lenses can focus up close. I've never tried a GoPro really close when I've used them. But they generally usually are very wide angle lenses which should give a greater depth of field.

 

There are now some with a wireless wrist screen to see what you are taking, so could get 2 in 1. Don't know if the range would work on the layout. Others have wifi capability to watch on a phone, tablet or computer.

 

Nariichi has done Amazon.jp ordering for me in the past.

 

Jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

You can download the 3D model of the above depressed flat car for the Sony Cam above at http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:638824

 

I will inquire at UPS and office supply stores tomorrow for prices.

[cteno4]

Interesting, nice he put it out there!

 

I've been looking at some of the cheap systems on ebay. Lots there to play with and experiment cheap.

 

This one may fit in a single car, but would need a smaller battery, with a charging circuit it could get recharged while running as well

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wireless-HD-1080P-SPY-Hidden-Camera-Wifi-Module-DVR-Video-IP-P2P-Recorder-CW-/221976570698?hash=item33aed5ab4a:g:xqYAAOSw~otWe0VW

 

Cheap enough that I think I'll grab one to fiddle with

 

Jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Micromark has a track power adapter.

[cteno4]

Should work fine with dcc. There is a 5v and 9v output from the converter. The camera takes a 5v input that looks like it can run the camera and It looks like the camera charges the battery.

 

I'm DC so just need a 5v regulator on the track power.

 

Jeff

[NXCALE]

Hi. I just wanted to update some information in this post.

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by nxcale

[katoftw]

The TV signal goes through the tracks?  If yes, then wow.

Edited January 10, 2016 by katoftw