DokodemoModule (N Narrow)

[ToniBabelony]

Because the next T-Trak meeting I can attend to will be at the JNMA next summer, I've started a little something for myself. I baptised it ドコデモモジュール (DokodemoModule) and is a concept which can be expanded in any way you want to. This idea mainly based on the Gunkanjima (or Hashima), the works of a fellow artist Yota Tsukino and the Inselbahnen in the German Wadden Sea (North Sea).

 

The basic rules are:
- Tomix rail at module ends (Min. R140 radius);
- Rail height 55mm (standard Tomix bridge pillar) or lower, depending on the need;
- Every module is an island and has at least one main line through track (except for end modules).
- No size limit. Want to make a tiny 70mm module? Go ahead!

Very simple, very straightforward, very limited, except for the setup of the modules. Of course, more rules need to be defined to guarantee flawless compatibility (train length, clearance, etc.), but since this is just a basic prototype concept, it'll need to be refined later on.

At the moment, I'm considering setting the scale standard to actual H0e (H0n3) narrow gauge, as the level of detail can be increased, allows for more freelance modeling, and has already a more active freelance modeler base. N-gauge will also be possible, but then the image would be more inclined to a more serious and heavy-rail type of thing, which is not what I want to go for.



The modules can be connected with Tomytec bridges, with the deck girder bridge (3028) as the main use. As there is no base, the modules can go over anything you like. Just pretend the floor or the table is the 'water' you're imagining the trains to run over. Little elements like rock formations sticking out of the 'water' and boats/ships can increase the sense of this setting.

Yes, it's not a prototypical concept, but that's not the point of this idea. It's rather to create a collection of small pieces of 'art' or sculptures, which are connected with each other through a means of transportation which isn't the logical choice for the setting these creations are in.

I hope to be able to finish the first module in not too long, as well as start creating the first simple rolling stock.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Toni Babelony

[HantuBlauLOL]

narrow gauge module?

[ToniBabelony]

narrow gauge module?

Yes, basically 1/87 on 9mm track.

 

P.s. a little first very rough sketch based on the first module:

 

 

Not very refined, but one of the possibilities of how a module could look. I however want to make it more packed, but not too intrusive in regards to the railway line.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Toni Babelony

[Welshbloke]

Usually known as HOe I think, or 009 for the 1:76 scale version used here.

 

In practice you could probably adapt a lot of the British 009 kits, while the locos would be noticeable oversized things like skip wagons would just look like bigger skip wagons. Not sure how easy Parkside Dundas kits are to come by there, but they're excellent.

 

I'm quite fond of the gravity slate trains they run on the Ffestiniog Railway. As the railway runs downhill from the quarries it was built to serve to the harbour at Porthmadoc the old FR would use a horse (later a steam engine) to haul empty wagons up, then let loaded ones roll back down with a few brave souls aboard to apply brakes and control the speed. The current FR has a set of restored wagons which they use on demonstration trains. They have a simple but effective means of warning bystanders in the form of a post horn, which is blown with great enthusiasm by the lookout on the first wagon. Given the Ffestiniog there's a fair chance that it's the same horn used on the pre-preservation trains!

 

If you're after weird rolling stock then look up Spooner's Boat. There's a replica, and it runs during special events. Given it uses a sail for propulsion it'd be perfect for an island-based layout, if you could find a small enough motorised chassis.

[ToniBabelony]

1/87 on 9mm track has a LOT of names out there. Here in Japan it's usually called HOナロー (HO Narrow or HOn), which is common, but incorrect, as it should be H0n, since there is no scale called HO in European standards, but since Japanese standards on this are more USA oriented, I can let them have that. Not that I care much about that though, since this project is more about getting a feeling right, so let's just ignore that thingie.

 

Back in the Netherlands, I used to be a junior member of the 009 club, which was basically a very small, but active group of lads building amazing layouts.

 

The nice thing about 1/87 on 9mm (let's call it HO Narrow from now on, as this would be the standard in Japan), is that it's very open to freelance modelling. From most projects, layouts and collections I see here, almost nobody follows a specific prototype or a prototype at all. It's a phenomenon I've seen almost everywhere, which makes it a very liberating change from the more rigid world of N-gauge modelling. I'm not saying I'm giving up on N-gauge, no way! But this seems like an excellent way of venting some absurdism.

 

Spooner's Boat... That's a very eccentric vehicle. Maybe a bit too victorian looking for my taste :P

[Welshbloke]

Well...you could always try to build a Japanese version? As if someone read about it and built their own, but as the article only had a description it ended up with Japanese styling cues.

 

You could certainly have a go at "gravity" working, just hide a small 4w mechanism under the lead wagon. The one Tomy is selling for those weird "Hako-Tetsu" things looks as if it should fit neatly inside a small narrow gauge wagon, with a hollow load to hide it. It only needs to handle a few wagons with some intrepid HO people sitting on them.

 

I have seen models of the tiny Simplex or Lister shunting tractors in 009 which used a Kato tram mechanism. The real ones were popular with industrial users and armoured/semi armoured versions of the Simplex saw use in the WW1 trenches too. Lister essentially built theirs by combining their existing single cylinder stationary engine with a simple four wheeled chassis and a gearbox, the result was small, light, easy to operate and could handle a few skip wagons. Unfortunately it lacked a roof, and the driver's perch strongly resembled a cast iron tractor seat!

[ToniBabelony]

Narrow gauge has seen some very excitingly simple motors in the past. In the Netherlands, more common types were mostly Orenstein & Koppel, Diema, Schöma, and Jung, as these were/are also largely in use in the North German soft-soil (peat and clay) areas. They ranged from the simple open engine on a frame with a gearbox and a 'seat' (like the Simplex example you gave), towards a more sophisticated covered cab covered locomotive with heating. Something like the big range of agricultural/commercial tractors that are available nowadays.

 

A fun inspiration could be this video of the former Juist Inselbahn. It's a bit more extreme example of a railway through the sea, but it certainly is inspirational to the project in general:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tggZwYqPXk

 

That gives me an idea for a clam farm, which doesn't need an island, but has a spur or two from which clams/oysters or whatever are grown. That again needs an island for processing and packing... Well, I think we have one of many themes going already! :)

[railsquid]

Wow, first time I've seen that one.

 

FWIW any Juist modeller could happily include a torii:

 

http://www.wattenrat.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Juist_Torii.jpg

[kvp]

http://www.inselbahn.de/index.php?nav=1401114&lang=1

[katoftw]

[ToniBabelony]

It's not what I'll be going for in this project, but it wouldn't be impossible to make in model: http://www.scottpages.net/SpiritiNgAway.html

[katoftw]

Rail bridges connecting many islands?  Sounds like the Key West Extension!

 

 

It is a good idea for a modular type network.  Allows the use of Tomix and you use track pieces or bridges to link it all.

Edited November 11, 2015 by katoftw

[cteno4]

Toni,

 

This is a really creative idea! Love it! kudos dude! Will be fun if you can allow 15 degree curves so the islands can wander around the table top some (looks like you are doing this). The island idea will allow a much more fun idea of mini scenes that tends to have issues when mashed up against each other in classic ttrak.

 

You da man dude!

 

Jeff

[ToniBabelony]

Rail bridges connecting many islands?  Sounds like the Key West Extension!

 

Dang! I never knew that existed/used to exist. Luckily, fantasy allows for this project to exist in fair waters.

 

This is a really creative idea! Love it! kudos dude! Will be fun if you can allow 15 degree curves so the islands can wander around the table top some (looks like you are doing this). The island idea will allow a much more fun idea of mini scenes that tends to have issues when mashed up against each other in classic ttrak.

 

Thank you! The setup is entirely free, as long as you can run a train through. Difficulties can be dealt with in between the modules with bridges. Hence, height isn't much of an issue.

 

Here are some new pictures of how the work on the first module is going:

 

 

I've already ran into a few problems, but these are because of personal choices, rather than the standards I've set up. As you can see, the module is on a pedestal, which is part of a display case. Because the module I've designed uses the available space to a maximum efficiency, there is very little space to do overhanging scenery.

 

The height is also a problem, since the box only allows a maximum of about 120mm, which isn't good when about half of that height is already the track height. If I want to have 1/87 standards, this would only allow two floors with some roof details. Another option is to have detachable floors and carry these in a separate container to be attached later. This would seem the best option, since the obvious key for using these extremely small spaces would be to build up. A positive side-effect with this solution is that it allows for easier interior detailing.

 

The white matter that is filling the sides and form the natural rock formations is paper clay, which is basically paper fiber with white glue, sold in packages at the 100 yen shop. Super light, dries on its own and can be modified with water and white glue after drying. Very versatile stuff.

[velotrain]

>  I'm considering setting the scale standard to actual H0e (H0n3) narrow gauge

 

These are not the same!

 

>  as it should be H0n

 

There is no such scale/gauge - at least, in terms of international modeling designations.

 

> (let's call it HO Narrow from now on, as this would be the standard in Japan)

 

I know there are Japanese modelers working in HO scale, 6.5 track gauge - what is that called, and how is it distinguished from the 9mm narrow gauge modeling?

 

 

 

HOe is the European designation that corresponds to the US HOn30, or 1:87 trains on 30" or 750/760mm track.

 

This is similar to the British OO9 (also written 009), with the difference that the scale is 1:76, so the represented track gauge works out close to 2', although it may also represent 30" prototypes.

 

Different formats for representing scale/gauge combinations are used in the US, UK and Europe.  The format of HOn is used in the US to designate a model in HO scale, narrow gauge.  However - without specifying the gauge represented, it means nothing.

 

The American convention is to represent the gauge by indicating the width of the prototype track - usually done in round feet, but in inches when it is more convenient.  The American magazine Model Railroader resisted this for years, insisting on using HOn 2 1/2.  However, they finally broke down under the overwhelming pressure of On30, as they were the only people still using the archaic On 2 1/2 format.

 

In the UK, narrow gauges are represented by the actual model track gauge, sometimes with a hyphen after the scale, such as:  OO9, O-16.5, O-14, etc.

 

In Europe, they don't get bogged down in numbers, but instead use designated letters - perhaps standardized by NEM, or whoever the European model railroad standards group is.  The link at the bottom of this post defines all this, including the proto track gauge ranges that are included in each of the European letter designations.

 

The most common HO scale, narrow gauge lines modeled, are:

 

HOm - meter gauge

 

HOn3 - 3', most commonly the famous 3' lines of Colorado

 

HOn30 (or HOe) - originally used by HO modelers who wished to depict the Maine 2' railways using N-scale track, mechanisms and trucks/wheelsets.  Messrs. Frary and Hayden (Carrabasset and Dead River - http://www.hon30.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Building_CDR.pdf) were the most famous proponents.

 

HOn2 (or HOf) - Little used in the US, this gauge is primarily for European modelers, with the 'f' representing feldbahn or forest railways.

 

It gets even stickier in O scale, with the US using 1:48, "most" of Europe using 1:45, and the UK using 1:43.5 (which is why HO - or "Half O" is the odd ratio of 1:87).

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_modelling_scales

 

[velotrain]

while the locos would be noticeable oversized

 

I'm not sure if that's really true, but will gladly yield to any actual UK modeler.

 

Without knowing the formal history, I always had the impression that much of the reason N scale was 1:148 in the UK (vs. 1:160 in Europe and the US) was due to the prototype engines / trains being smaller, much as 1:150 is used in Japan for similar reasons.

 

Writing the above made me curious, and I just checked Wiki.  It turns out that I had the right idea, but only indirectly for the reason that I thought.

 

Wiki:  "When N gauge was developed it proved impossible to fit the then available motors into scale models of British prototype locomotives. British railways use a smaller loading gauge than those in Europe and America, resulting in smaller locomotives. A greater body size was required on the models to accommodate the motors, so instead of adopting the correct 1:160 scale, 1:148 was used. This allows larger models, but means that the gauge is not an accurate representation of standard gauge."

 

Anyway, I was only suggesting that since so many of the OO9 models represent quite small prototypes, the larger model scale may not be that big (so to speak) of an issue.

[ToniBabelony]

Dear Charles, if you have read about this project. It is not about modelling a prototype, but rather as a freelance art project with moving trains as the centre of attention. Considering this is a project based in Japan, I will not be limited by NEM/MOROP and NMRA standards or any other set standards, other than my own. It will be somewhere around H0/OO scale and run on 9mm tracks. A scale accuracy discussion is rather useless in this regard though.

 

An example in regards to T-Trak: not even T-Trak doesn't follow many strict standards in regards to scale, but it works like a charm. Nobody cares if you run a 1:160 or 1:150 scale tram, or a piece of motorised sushi on it. If it goes, it goes. Just don't go beyond the 25mm width and have it run on the brink of reliability (yes, in my short stay, I've already seen several home-brewn units spontaneously disintegrate on the setups, as well as the modules themselves).

 

Japan does not have standards which are made up by an organisation, but rather standards that are dictated by the market and the manufacturers. This is a project about artistic freedom, rather than scale accuracy. And yes, HOn does exist in Japan and roughly means 1/87 on 9mm track. There is no accurate scale discussion in this project.

[velotrain]

Dear Charles, if you have read about this project. It is not about modelling a prototype, but rather as a freelance art project with moving trains as the centre of attention. Considering this is a project based in Japan, I will not be limited by NEM/MOROP and NMRA standards or any other set standards, other than my own. It will be somewhere around H0/OO scale and run on 9mm tracks. A scale accuracy discussion is rather useless in this regard though.

 

Hi Toni - I have read what you wrote (and admired your sketch), but you seem to be misunderstanding the intent of what I wrote.  It has much more to do with communication than standards, and there's no need to be "limited" by the various worldwide definitions of scales/gauges, but it does help to know what they are and use them correctly (actual H0e (H0n3) ) so people can understand what you're talking about.  If you wish to call it HOn, and everyone will simply need to know that this is a Japanese colloquialism, that's fine.  I might suggest something like HOnJ for partial clarification.

[ToniBabelony]

Hi Toni - I have read what you wrote (and admired your sketch), but you seem to be misunderstanding the intent of what I wrote.  It has much more to do with communication than standards, and there's no need to be "limited" by the various worldwide definitions of scales/gauges, but it does help to know what they are and use them correctly (actual H0e (H0n3) ) so people can understand what you're talking about.  If you wish to call it HOn, and everyone will simply need to know that this is a Japanese colloquialism, that's fine.  I might suggest something like HOnJ for partial clarification.

 

Somewhere around 1/87 on 9mm gauge is fine by me. I called HO Narrow (HOn) in this thread, as this nomenclature is common in Japan for this purpose. 9mm gauge, Tomix track at the module ends and a yet to be defined gauge profile in which rolling stock is limited. That's it. The first module hasn't even been built and the whole thing is still in its brainstorm phase. If people don't understand it, that is completely understandable, as nothing is set in stone, except for the track and concept, which even then is up to the creator's interpretation. It's a project for those who want to break free from designated standards. Communication is only necessary in terms of compatibility on a local level (Japan for now), not in terms of scale or correctness of terminology.

 

On the building of the module: I want to have it finished it by the 2nd half of February, since I have booked some space at an exhibition for two weeks at an art gallery I regularly attend. Here I have some space to display some of my work. One of which will be this module, an accompanying illustration, and a short description. My participation hasn't been confirmed yet, but once it is, I'll let you all know.

[velotrain]

Toni - I like this idea.

 

This could be Fremo at the absolute freeist - the only things absolutely defined are track gauge and (table offset) height!  There's no need to specify where (or how)  the track ends at the edge of the module, as that is all handled by the bridge connections.

 

I see this as breaking away from the restraints of traditional modules, which are bound by multiple standards.  Even Fremo modules are only "free" in that the owner can do anything they want between the officially mandated end plates / module interface standards.  The entire module is free form design with these guys.

 

 

This is Totternhoe Mineral, a O9 (On18) layout.

 

I've always admired the design and staging of this layout, using irregularly-shaped "modules" and a flat (color-texture wise) base to emphasize the modeled scene - and nothing beyond it.

 

I actually remembered it due to Toni's comment, "Because the module I've designed uses the available space to a maximum efficiency, there is very little space to do overhanging scenery."

 

Unless you really want to create rugged and rocky coastal scenery, you could simply use the Totternhoe solution.  For that matter, you optionally could make the islands and sea totally symbolic - the islands are simply the artistic creation of each modeler, and can either have modeled edges (to a "modeled" sea), or a flat edge as Totternhoe, signifying that the modeled scene ends there.

 

The bridge creates a thematic transition, so you don't have radically different modules adjacent to each other, as happens with T-Trak and other systems.

[ToniBabelony]

Yes, the 'sea' or body of water (or any other liquid of choice) is totally symbolic, but the islands not. These are supposed to be complete and standalone pieces of land, but it's up to the user to define how the sides look. In my case, I went for almost vertical edges, as is the case with the Hashima example I posted in the first post (almost 100% walled). However, when you have more space to spare and/or are willing to make some compromises, you can go for a more gently sloped coast and/or decide to lower the tracks to reduce the basic height of your island. The idea is to create an archipelago of collective scale art, united by the passion of rails.

 

For the height of the tracks, I was thinking of the standard 55mm provided by basic the Tomix bridge pillars, but going below that height is also possible, as long as a bridge can be used (IIRC this is 10mm as a minimum). The sloping of bridges in the Tomix rail system allow for an easy variation in height, so really only a standard of track type in the case of tracks is needed.

 

I also looked at the Totternhoe example a while ago on the late C. Arendt website, but felt that the continuous layout would be more in line with FREMO and would require stricter rules, which would hamper freedom of expression. A good part of inspiration derived from the Totternhoe concept is the black cloth underneath the layout, which could symbolise the sea, without too much distraction. A long and thin roll of a few meters from tick material would be enough to provide the scenery for an exhibition. Black would also allow users to directly display their layouts/islands from the black base of a pedestal without having to remove it.

 

Some good brain juices flowing here! :D

[velotrain]

Toni - would you be willing to post links to the pages / images on the  Yota Tsukino  site that you find relevant to this project?

 

I went there, but had the usual problem I have on Japanese sites.  I find long lists of sub-topics/pages, and try randomly clicking a few, but they either take me nowhere in particular, or don't have any images - which is what I'm looking for.

 

Unless there are shops that specialize in it, there seems to be virtually no HOn available.  Guess I'll use some of my HOn30 or HOe equipment - I have a built Kiso Baldwin steamer - Joe Works I think, somewhere.  I also have a bunch of 009, but I think that's mostly unbuilt kits.

 

thanks, Charles

[katoftw]

I love this scene.

Edited November 12, 2015 by katoftw

[ToniBabelony]

Here is one page of illustrations on Mr. Tsukino's website that inspired me to start this project: http://iqra.jakou.com/works2.html

 

HO Narrow is available in Japan, but you have to know the places and manufacturers to get it. The obvious manufacturer would be World Kōgei, but luckily, there are also more affordable alternatives like Tsugawa (TGW), Arumo, Nanyō Bussan, and many more.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Toni Babelony

[Welshbloke]

If you want another seriously weird railway as inspiration...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_and_Rottingdean_Seashore_Electric_Railway

 

Yes, it's a chunk of Victorian pier which used to go for a trundle along the beach!