B-Train Shorty H5 Shinkansen

[Krackel Hopper]

hey hey,

 

A rant from me.  I am getting really bummed out about the way Bandai has been choosing to package the B-Trains as of late.  I'm not a rivet counter, but I want my stuff to at least vaguely resemble what it is supposed to be.

 

For instance, the B-Train Shorty Cassiopeia release.  A+B sets.  Each set contained 5 cars +1 engine.  Cassiopeia is 12 cars in length, but having a B-Train Shorty 10 cars long looked good enough to me.  Or the Twilight Express, a 10 car train was released as an A+B set that equaled 8 cars.  Again, in my eyes that's close enough.  Or the E5 release, again A+B 8 cars.. should be 10.. but 8 still gives you that feel..

 

Lately Bandai has switched to these smaller sets where things just don't really match up.  This new H5 release requires 2x A sets & 4x B sets.  So I need to buy 18 cars in order to make a prototypical 10 car set.  Such a waste.. I am considering buying 2x A + 1x B and that would get me an 8 car set that would look close.. which is all I really wanted in the first place.  Why not do 4 cars per box and allow people to just buy an A+B and call it good enough.

 

They did the E7 even worse.  Releasing an A+B that is only 2 cars per box.  Each box containing an end car.  So in order to make a full 12 car set, you're buying 10 boxes.. even making it an 8 car has you buying 6 boxes.. also leaving you with so many extra end cars..

 

I'm sure Bandai has their reasons, but this new style of packaging has started to turn me away from the B-Train Shorty craze.. also.. not looking for sympathy or whatever else.. I just wanted to vent my annoyance with the packaging methods lately..

 

Since I posted this is the "new release".. here it is.. the pre-order for the Shorty H5.. that I want.. but probably will not be getting..

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10356560

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10356562

[cteno4]

Krackle,

 

Bandai did this a lot in the early days of shorties as well. Our club president was given a full 16 car correct set of Btrain shorties of the 700 and it took a lot of extra bandai 2 car sets to make it so by his Train club in Japan! Bandai for a while there seemed to go on a more simplified get 2 sets to do a nice complete train, but maybe going back to the having to by extras is making them more money!

 

Btrains definitely go down the collectors market road a lot so there are ways in that world to try to squeeze more profits by doing things to get folks to by extra to get something special. Nice if there can be a more of a happy medium though with those that only want nicer small to medium sets w.o buying extras and those that want it ultimate set and are willing to pay whatever to get it!

 

I think thier thought is usually a half the number of cars for the shorty train is what they design for a lot of the time. With the Shinkansens the 8 cars feels right to me (and is easier to run) but the 16 car don't quite feel right as it gets long enough to not feel shortened! I also like the overall truncation in not only car length but train length to finish the compression overall effect.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Welshbloke]

I do think they could do the Shinkansen better.

 

How about making Pack A the end coaches, and Pack B and/or C able to make two intermediate coaches (with a few interchangeable parts so you can make any two of the possible six or so)? That way you wouldn't end up with an almost-complete pair of leftover end coaches after building a set.

 

I left it too late to buy the 500 Series in its eight car form, and ended up with a pair of Pack B but no A. With some mix-and-match part use I've managed to get up to a five car train, of which one end car is wrong and one intermediate is a mix of the roof and one end from one coach and the sides/other end from another. I took advantage of the fact that you can't see the cosmetic sideframes on the front bogies, so left them off and used them for the extra intermediate coach instead. Runs ok and looks reasonable, but would still like to find an A to get it up to a seven car set.

[kvp]

I would like to add that a single bandai 4 axle motor chassis seems to be generally good for 4 cars. This means you can power a 4 car set with a single motor and 3 unpowered cars. The bogies only and the assembled trailer frame packages both contain 6 bogies, good for 3 cars. In the early days many collectors who didn't motorise just assembled a single front car and one trailer, at least many old collection photos i've seen show tables filled with shorties this way (the contents of one package from each type). The logical packaging strategy based on this would be to add a front and a trailer car to each package and maybe enough extra parts to build a more prototypical looking 4 car set.

 

For my 113 series, this meant getting 2 boxes, assembling 2 cab cars, 1 motor car with pantograph and one without, giving a correct 4 car set with a minimal amount of parts left (2 roofs, 2 middle car ends and a pantograph). Also i've seen sets which were released in 2 car form and later in a larger box containing a near prototypical consist. A+B sets and more than 2 car sets seem to be aimed at people who want full(er) sets, instead of just an unmotorised head+trailer or building a moving 4 car basic set. I don't know the percentage of people who build full sets, those who are happy with running 4, 6 or 8 cars (depending on the packages) and those who want fullly prototypical sets, but probably Bandai has researched its market.

 

Personally i think getting the H5 A+B sets gives a nice 6 car set, which is ok for many people and looks good on the Bandai layout plate. (altough a 10 car set might still fit on it) I think the A+B+C idea is great as getting one from each would give the same 6 car set and getting A+B+B+C+C+C would allow a 10 car set with only 2 leftover cars (one from B and one from C i guess).

[katoftw]

Lets be honest.  B-shorties not not even close to realism.  Worrying about consist numbers is crazy.  I have never seen a prototypical B-shortie before.  So the consist numbers can be non prototypical also.

 

They do what they do to make it as cheap as the possibly can.  People drift towards B-shorites due to space constraints.  I think they know this and don't really see the point in releasing the whole prototypical consist.

 

If you want prototypical, then buy proper N scale.  Not these hacked up short versions.

[tossedman]

I totally agree Krackel Hopper. It'd be great to see more complete sets available, even if you did have to buy a couple to complete a train.

 

I've got a full 16 car 0 Series Shinkansen B-Train Shorty that was released with all 16 cars in one box. It's great! You can still get them for ¥8000 or ¥9000 if you look around. Bandai also made a B Train Shorty Series N700 Tokaido/Sanyo Shinkansen 16-car full formation set but they are far and few between it seem and you pay through the nose if you do find one. 

 

I've also got a 7 car Dr. Yellow, an 8 car 500 series Shinkansen, an 8 car E5 and an 8 car N700 series Shinkansen and am always looking for more. I'd like more complete commuter trains like the Yamanote as  well.

 

I agree that they definitely aren't prototypical but it's great to see a 16 car Shinkansen snaking around corners without overhanging the inside of the corner. Most of us might have prototypical trains but we don't have prototypical track unless you have hectares of space in which to build your layout. 

 

Here's my 16 car 0 Series Shinkansen B-Train Shorty winding it's way around some 117 mm radius corners. Definitely not prototypical but it does fit on a 300 mm wide shelf. 

 

Inspite of their obvious shortcomings I love my B Train Shorties!

 

 

Cheers eh,

 

Todd

Edited November 8, 2015 by tossedman

[Welshbloke]

They did the Hokutosei as an A/B/C series.

 

A contained the ED79 and three coaches

 

B contained the EF510, the restaurant car, and two coaches

 

C contained the end coach and the generator van (with alternate roof/end parts so you could make one of two variants.

 

The only leftover bits if you bought all three were one side, a couple of roofs, and one end. That gave you an eight coach train. While the 4w loco chassis can't cope with this, if you hide a motorised chassis under the generator van the results will rattle around happily at a reasonable speed. There's a bit of squabbling when you move off as one end starts spinning its wheels before the other motor picks up, and I've occasionally found the loco running free pursued by its train, but it's not bad by any means.

 

Just wish they'd offer the pair of DD51s which hauled the train in Hokkaido, they have the tooling for them. Amusingly the two DD51s I have ("Euroliner" and original red) can both manage the entire train alone without needing the motorised generator van, mostly as I slipped a few small chunks of lead sheet and blutack into every available space between the body panels and the subframe they press onto. They'll cheerfully drag six or seven coaches around a 117mm radius curve now!

[kvp]

A small bit of advice: Measure the speed of each motor type and if they are wildly different, try to use the same type only. This could mean two 4 axle motors under two cars and a non powered loco on a hacked coach chassis or fitting a 4 axle motor under it. Imho a 4 axle locomotive also looks better.

[Krackel Hopper]

If you want prototypical, then buy proper N scale.  Not these hacked up short versions.

 

Had you actually read my post, I am not asking for prototypical.  I am asking for something that vaguely resembles the prototype.  When the prototype is 12 cars long and the Shorty A+B set is 4 cars long, that is way off.  I am saying I wish they would have done the H5 and E7 like sets they had done in the past like the E5, Hikari Railstar, Twilight Express, Cassiopeia, Hokutosei and several others.  Those sets came close.  If the prototype is 12 cars and the Shorty is 8 cars that's okay.  When the Prototype is 12 and the Shorty is only 4, it's so far off the mind can no longer fill in the gaps and it just looks wrong.  Like running a Shinkansen 3 car starter set.. it just doesn't have the right feeling..

[Krackel Hopper]

Just wish they'd offer the pair of DD51s which hauled the train in Hokkaido, they have the tooling for them.

 

They did make Hokutosei DD51s.  They were a limited edition type thing and included with the B-Train Shorty 10th Anniversary Book.  I'm surprised they were never re-released in a regular box.  You might be able to find them on Yahoo Auctions Japan.. maybe hit up Nariichi at ModelTrainPlus..

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10200545

[katoftw]

If the prototype is 12 cars and the Shorty is 8 cars that's okay.  When the Prototype is 12 and the Shorty is only 4, it's so far off the mind can no longer fill in the gaps and it just looks wrong.  Like running a Shinkansen 3 car starter set.. it just doesn't have the right feeling..

Yeah agreed.  That is my view on it also.  Maybe I didn't express myself clearly enough.

[Welshbloke]

A small bit of advice: Measure the speed of each motor type and if they are wildly different, try to use the same type only. This could mean two 4 axle motors under two cars and a non powered loco on a hacked coach chassis or fitting a 4 axle motor under it. Imho a 4 axle locomotive also looks better.

They're not that far apart once both ends are running, it's just that one motor starts at a lower voltage than the other. On the occasions when the loco manages to uncouple itself the rest of the train generally follows at a steady pace, but obviously drops back over time as it's trying to push eight coaches on the curves while the loco isn't.

 

Even more of a suprise that they didn't re-release the Hokutosei DD51s as a standard item then, given that they surely have the artwork on file from the special edition set.

[tossedman]

A pair of DD51s. http://www.jauce.com/auction/e156313037