Traction Tyres - friend or foe ?

[katoftw]

Something wrong. I haven't lost a traction tyre in seven years.

[railsquid]

I've had a couple come off, but those were exceptions usually due to being very old models.

 

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

lets make it another engine, less then a hour run time on  it, lost both traction tires,,,,?????   I have checked the track,,,, its not bad, just a couple of spots   Im at a loss

 

What make/model?

[cteno4]

Yeah I’ve only had a couple in twenty years and a couple hundred trains. Few more with various club members trains over the years.

 

were these new trains or new to you and may be older and might have dried out some over the years? 

 

Only thing I can think of is you have some sharp track joint that’s slicing them open. You don’t run at 300mph speeds, correct? Only other thing would some harsh track cleaner that’s not evaporating getting wiped off and attacking the tires. You don’t use clipper oil or brake fluid to clean the track, right?

 

jeff

[Jimbo]

brand new Tomix ef510, kato were the others, all bought new, two slightly used engines no problems,,   I think remember I said I think here,,i have been using isaproable alcohol to clean the wheels,?? which may or may not been attacking the rubber??    my emus work just fine no problems with them,,  The two engines I use on the outer loop have had no problems with those either,,    I seem to have strange problems don't I ??

[Jimbo]

their breaking chad

[Tuga]

If someone is looking for Traction Tires I've found this firm

 

https://lovetrainhobbies.com/

 

I've order some traction tires and their service was fast from the US to the UK.

[chadbag]

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

their breaking chad

 

I'd look for a sharp joint in your track.  You may have a track that is not joined correctly (happens to me all the time and most trains have no problem across them so you don't notice them right away).  Those sorts of joints leave a sharp edge between tracks.

 

With your isopropyl alcohol cleaning -- is this track cleaning or actually wheel cleaning?

[Jimbo]

chad both used it on the track an the wheels

[chadbag]

13 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

chad both used it on the track an the wheels

 

I am not an expert, but looking online, Isopropyl can damage some sorts of rubbers with long term exposure, so maybe a good idea to just clean the track and let it evaporate before using.  If you need to do the wheels, skip the traction tires (at least some of the time) to limit the exposure.

 

However, dollars to donuts, the problem is a sharp edge or something causing the tire to be cut.

[Sheffie]

You may learn something from looking at the tyres under a magnifier. If they’re getting chopped by sharp track there should be a lot of small nicks. If it’s something chemical, the outside of the tyre should look discoloured compared to the inside—or it may look brittle or flaky. 

[Jimbo]

its kind of frustrating  but I think that it is the alcohol that's doing it,,,  kind of like un leaded gas the alcohol eats seals an such in small engines    Well I guess I can tear up the ballast an track lol an go back to using double track an start over,,, but hey Ill get better at ballasting!!

[EdF]

Once it evaporates off the track you're good, if it's the alcohol, it's the direct application to the traction tires.

[Tuga]

I use Dapol track cleaning fluid which is the same as the Tomix one, on both track and wheels without any problems. 

Occasionally for the track I use the Peco rail cleaner abrasive rubber block.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by tavora

[cteno4]

Jim,

 

how are you cleaning the wheels with the isopropanol? Are you using the soaked paper towel across the tracks to run the wheels on one truck while picking up power with the others? If so this may be the issue. While I’ve used this technique in a pinch at shows you do need to be very light in setting the train down and keep most of the weight off the trucks — you just want the trucks to be floating on the rails and the body not pressing on them. This action can potentially be really rough on the tires and especially at the same time as isopropanol is applied.

 

my preferred way to clean loco wheels is to flip the engine over in a little soft cradle of some sort — a rag on the bench folded up to have a valley works well. I usually use a watch vise with a some foam padding strips to keep the pantographs from getting caught or crushed. Then I apply power to the the flange edges of wheels with a little block of wood I glued two copper strips to and soldered wires to, but you can even do this with just stripped wire ends. With the other hand I use little makeup swabs (q tip will work, makeup swabs just hold up better and better shape and don’t loose fibers) soaked in isopropanol to clean the wheels individually while spinning. On the traction tires I go lightly to just get off the surface crud. It a little rubbing your belly and patting your head using both hands to do different things but after a few seconds you get use to it and it goes quickly and you can make sure each wheel is shiny and good! 

 

I use 70% isopropanol, not 95% (this can be a little harsh and attack some decals if you accidentally get some on cars). I’ve dome this for 20+ years and like I’ve said lost maybe 2 traction tires and I have a couple hundred+ trains.

 

the isopropanol will evaporate off the track very quickly after you use it on the track for cleaning. Even with a tank car spreading it on I usually see it evaporate by the time the cleaning train has some a loop slowly, even faster if you are using a Tomix car last with the fiber buffing wheel spinning as that seems to really blow the tracks off.

 

jeff

[Jimbo]

using a q tip to clean the wheels

[katoftw]

Why are you cleaning wheels of new locos? They shouldn't need a clean.

[cteno4]

Were the wheels spinning when you qtipped them? Did you hit the traction tires hard with qtip if they were spinning?

 

really has to be a really sharp track joint and maybe too fast running to be causing this many tires to get broken so quickly. Beaver heard of so many getting busted so fast.

 

jeff

[bill937ca]

Kato recommends you do not use rubbing alcohol over 90%. This the exact wording from the V50 manual.

 

You should regularly clean your tracks by using a cotton swab or cloth soaked with track cleaning solution or a low-concentration (nothing above 90%) rubbing
alcohol. After cleaning the tracks, wipe them down with a dry cloth to ensure there is no leftover residue.

 

Only reason I could see for limiting the strength of the alcohol is that it may attack some materials.

Edited May 30, 2019 by bill937ca

[Jimbo]

its all interesting,,,,  happened again last night,, my oldest engine (new last year in Nov) started shuddering in one of the curves,, checked it,, rubber had come off one of the drive wheels,, wasn't cut it was stretched!     would go back on the driver but  just spun around the wheel,, I guess I learned something,,  need to find a better an safer cleaner

[cteno4]

Do you have the wheels spinning while qtip cleaning them? If so that should work fine to evaporate the isopropanol quickly.

 

are you using 70% isopropanol?

 

I seriously doubt it’s the isopropanol (unless 90 or 95%) as I've cleaned hundreds if not thousands of traction tires in the last couple of decades with 70% isopropanol and never had one stretch like that. The couple I had broke clean off and were not stretched out. Something odd is going on here with this many stretching out like that.

 

how fast do you run your trains? Any huge loads or grades to stress the tires more?

 

the traction tires don’t need a vigorous cleaning just gentle touch while spinning. I use those makeup applicators as they don’t soak up as much isopropanol so you don’t flood the wheel as you could with a soaked qtip. They also have a tip that better Nestles into the wheel face and flange well are are much stiffer than qtips so you can judge the pressure you are applying well.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/50pcs-Disposable-MakeUp-Lip-Brush-Lipstick-Gloss-Wands-Applicator-Make-Up-Tool/392045792409?hash=item5b47c00c99%3Ag%3AB9QAAOSwiMRa~Swt&LH_BIN=1

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/50pcs-Practical-Disposable-Eyeliner-Makeup-Wand-Applicator-Cosmetics-Brush-Tools/181839449240?hash=item2a5679cc98%3Ag%3Amd8AAOSwjVVVy1Kj&LH_BIN=1

 

btw the second one the eyeliner applicator you can pull out the little cone swab and flip it over so you get two uses out of each applicator! 

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Sheffie]

I am going to make a wild guess. The only thing I can think of, that could make rubber stretch out like that, is oil. Heat would also do it, but I imagine you’d be aware of it if your trains were getting too hot 

[Jimbo]

lol i don't run my trains fast,,  Thanks for the insight an trying to help,,   I forgot to say anything but this all transpired after I switched back to using  the single  track setup,,, Boy I sure messed up something,,, now to fix it

[Welshbloke]

Two years on and the heatshrink on my MoHa 152 is still doing the trick. It now runs as a ten car set, and while I suspect the 1970s motor may be a bit weary there doesn't seem to be any lack of adhesion. Still needs some head/tail light boards as it's of the era when you bought those separately, and oddly enough Kato no longer produce the kit.

[cteno4]

Interesting never occurred to me to try heat shrink! 

 

Jeff

[Welshbloke]

I just realised that it was essentially a tube of soft-ish rubber which cuts easily with a sharp knife. Decided to give it a try replacing a couple of missing tyres and it worked. Done the same thing on a few other models since, although it works better in N than OO. The old Airfix Caerphilly Castle with tender drive should probably have some proper rubber tyres fitted to its plastic wheels...