Traction Tyres - friend or foe ?

[kvp]

Did you buy your E6 new or it's pre owned? Some people don't like traction tires, and it's easy to replace the wheelset with a spare normal one.

Edited August 5, 2015 by kvp

[Robert46]

Hi kvp,

 

I got this new.. I bought it from PlazaJapan via ebay, and I am sure they are official suppliers who sell new items.. the sets was also described as new.. but I have no idea if they changed the wheelset so it came without traction tires..

 

However, it runs very well and no issue with lost friction...

[Martijn Meerts]

Hi Martijn.. :)

 

Since you posted Kato E6 has the traction tires, I thought that I might be wrong... and last night I checked again on it to make sure and found out that it really has no traction tires...

 

I think it's strange if Kato released the E6 randomly to use traction tires or not.. perhaps my Kato E6 is different from other releases? I'm not sure but that's what I got..

 

Weird.. I'll have to check mine once I get home and don't forget to check.

 

Actually, looking at the Kato site, it does seem that the E6 does not have traction tires because Kato expects people to couple it to the E5, which does have traction tires. So Kato may have done the same with other models that prototypically connect together as well.

[HantuBlauLOL]

Kato doesn't really like rubber tires.. Their US trains also don't have any rubber tires.

[katoftw]

disagree 

Edited August 6, 2015 by katoftw

[Martijn Meerts]

Just checked my Kato E6, it does indeed not have traction tires, but the E5 does. Also checked my Kato GG-1, which also has traction tires, as does the GS4 and F3, so their US models certainly do have traction tires on at least some of their models.

 

Kato's Portram also didn't have traction tires (makes sense really), but other than that, the few sets/locomotives I checked all do have traction tires. Same goes for Tomix and MicroAce.

[kvp]

The rule is generally that only one motor car (or locomotive) in a set should have them, unless they are perfectly matching or at least electrically connected. Any speed difference would shed the tires instead of having a little wheelslip. The usual solution is to have traction tires only on one of the power cars or to connect all cars electrically or use perfectly matching motors and transmissions in all power cars.

 

ps: all of my european Kato locomotives have 1 or 2 and even one of my 30 years old japanese Kato locomotives got them, also the portram has multiple micromotors that would get damaged on overload if slipping was not allowed for them, this is the same reason why maerklin Z scale trains don't have any either, they would just burn their motors

[Welshbloke]

Can you describe how you do this? I presume you heat the heat shrink to grab the wheel! Sounds like a great idea!

I didn't heat it as I was worried about it becoming too thin (the tyre needs to be about as deep as the groove for obvious reasons), also that the heat would damage the plastic gear on the axle. I just used a piece of heat shrink 5mm in diameter, cut 1mm wide slices so they'd drop neatly into the groove, and stretched them over the wheel like a "real" traction tyre. Seems to have plenty of grip and they've not fallen off yet. As I already have plenty of sleeving I thought it was worth a go.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Welshbloke

[cteno4]

Excellent! Gunna have to try that!

 

You can shrink up heat shrink by just putting a soldering iron tip within a few mm quickly to avoid heating the whole thing up and melting something else close with a heat gun.

 

Simpler than bullfrog snot!

 

http://www.bullfrogsnot.com

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited December 17, 2016 by cteno4

[beakaboy]

that's a very clever idea and something I will also try. My Kato E4 doesn't seem to like traction tyres and after a period of running it will stretch them enough to have them slip off. The last time I fitted slightly tighter tyres on the wheels and so far it has been fine, but the heat shrink tubing might solve the  issue completely. Heating the heat shrink might affect its makeup and cause it to harden and therefore change its effectiveness as a traction tyre!

[cteno4]

yes good point, and there are also many different textures on heat shrink, i have ones that range from a velvety (probably good traction more like rubber) to very slick like styrene.

 

jeff

[Welshbloke]

The stuff I have came from Aldi of all places. I was just about to spend £5 plus post ordering some genuine Kato tyres when I realised that heat shrink is pretty similar and some I had looked about the right size. It has enough stretch to pull over the wheel rim and then pop neatly into the groove. I did have to cut a few slices of it before I got two I was happy with - the right width and reasonably parallel edges so it fills the groove without overlapping the sides. No lumps or ridges either.

 

As for grip, if you try to drag the power car by pulling a neighbouring coach the tyred wheels produce enough friction to flip the other wheelset on each power bogie off the track. Happy with that!

 

Got the 153 and 165 Series out for a quick photoshoot today. I think trying the same thing with Farish products from 1979 and 2015 would be somewhat embarrassing for the older model...

 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Welshbloke

[gavino200]

Anyway if your tyres are getting on the rails, that means either your rails are not smooth enough (often the result of using abrasive track cleaning) or the rail joint transitions are not smooth. For example most Tomix tracks have slightly filed down ends, while kato tracks are sharp, resulting in a sharp edge when the two pieces are not aligned perfectly in the vertical direction. It's important to clean up any residual dirt and rail coloring paint from the inside edge of the rails too, as most traction tyre wheels pick up power with their flanges only. Polishing the rails and making sure the tyres are not protuding above the grooves of their wheels helps too.

Any advice for filing the sharp ends of Kato unitrack? What kind of file do you use? How much filing do you do? Do you remove every track and track joiner to do it?

 

Also, how do you clean your tracks? Alcohol? Tops only or sides too? Any tips for how to clean the inner sides of the track? Any particular tool or product you find useful?

[gavino200]

How do you come to that conclusion ?  I have been with model train layouts since approx 10 y/o - all I say ( from a PERSONAL viewpoint ) is I don't like rubber traction tyres - I find them useless and unnecessary - adding weight makes up for underweight models and solves the traction issue.  So far, I have no problems in running ex t/t models on the layout I have,  where gradients are similar in ratio to the Lickey bank in the Midlands. ( by necessity  may I add - not choice.) :)

How do you add weight? What do you use?

[gavino200]

How specific are traction tires? Are there specific tires for specific Kato models? Or do all diesel/electric locos/motor cars use the same tire.

 

If specific, is there a table with recommended tires for particular loco models?

 

Also, is there a recommended tire position. Two tires side by side, versus one tire on eache truck/bogie?

[cteno4]

Gavino,

 

Usually the instruction sheets for trains with traction tires specify the part number for them.

 

Jeff

[kvp]

The tires usually go into the slotted wheels placed at the position according to the instructions. There are no generic tires, each manufacturer has several ones, usually one type for each powered wheel size. Replacing a tire may require serious disassembly, especially for locos with side drive linkage. Some parts are available only as a full bogie replacement.

[cteno4]

You can also try the heat shrink method that was recently discussed here. There is also bullfrog snot that seems to have good reviews! Does not take disassembly nor finding the correct tire to do the bull frog snot.

 

http://www.bullfrogsnot.com/index.asp

 

Jeff

[gavino200]

Gavino,

 

Usually the instruction sheets for trains with traction tires specify the part number for them.

 

Jeff

I was planning on putting traction tires on trains that didn't come with tires originally.

 

I have a two level layout. Ground level and Kato double viaduct level. I have the gradient set and the gradient expansion set. It doesn't seem possible to get a lower incline with the kato pier sets.

 

A few of my locos have trouble with it. Wheelspinning. I was hoping traction tires would help.

[gavino200]

You can also try the heat shrink method that was recently discussed here. There is also bullfrog snot that seems to have good reviews! Does not take disassembly nor finding the correct tire to do the bull frog snot.

 

http://www.bullfrogsnot.com/index.asp

 

Jeff

Yeah, I've read about this stuff on another thread here. Seems like lots of folk are curious but reluctant to try it (myself included).

My biggest concern would be getting an even coat on the wheel. An uneven coat might make for a bumpy ride. 

 

I'm willing to get some and guinea pig one of my engines. I've never removed a drive wheel so I'll have to work out how to do that. I'm sure it's not hard but I'd rather find a guide so I don't have to learn by trial and error. In my experience, "error" usually means a damaged tiny plastic connector and a model that never fits perfectly tightly together again. 

 

Wasn't there someone who had a jar of frogsnot who wasn't using it? I think they were offering to give it up for the greater good. 

 

What's the heat shrink method? Can you give me a link?

 

I've seem the double sided tape method on YouTube. It looks like a great way to ruin a loco. Am I wrong?

Edited December 26, 2016 by gavino200

[gavino200]

The tires usually go into the slotted wheels placed at the position according to the instructions. There are no generic tires, each manufacturer has several ones, usually one type for each powered wheel size. Replacing a tire may require serious disassembly, especially for locos with side drive linkage. Some parts are available only as a full bogie replacement.

 

Yes, I'm willing to disassemble/reassemble.

 

Is there a listing of locos by wheel size/type? Or a listing of tires by wheel size? Also, is there a listing of loco bogie types.

 

I'm having a hard time understanding Kato parts. I have a Kato catalog but it's in Japanese. My Japanese is basic. Do you know where I can get a full listing of Kato parts in English? Online or paper is ok. Free or purchase is ok. I'd really like to have a systematic inclusive catalog.

 

This "Hobby search" site is the closest thing to a catalog in English that I can use. 

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/rail/

 

Do you know if there is an online version of the Kato catalog? That way I can use google translate.

 

Also do you know if the 'Kato parts catalog' is just a separately published subsection of the 'Kato Model Railroad Catalog"? Or does the parts catalog list parts not included in the more genereal 'model railroad catalog'?

Edited December 26, 2016 by gavino200

[cteno4]

Kato I don't think makes an extensive parts catalog anymore and I've never seen big table of things like traction tires and bogies published by them or by others. Tomix does make a few limited parts catalogs.

 

The best part source for Kato especially is the instruction sheet that comes with it. They usually have a table of the parts and numbers and a diagram or two on them. If you don't have one for your train post it and perhaps someone else may have it and can scan it for you and provide it off forum to you.

 

If you have questions or issues on a particular train, just post it and as much particulars or photos of the part/situation and someone will probably have some info or experience on it to share.

 

For translating bits in catalogs and instruction sheets the Google mobile translate app works great. Just snap a pict of it and draw your finger across the bit you want translated ans you get a pretty fair translation to figure out things in diagram and tables on printed materials.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[gavino200]

Kato I don't think makes an extensive parts catalog anymore and I've never seen big table of things like traction tires and bogies published by them or by others. Tomix does make a few limited parts catalogs.

 

The best part source for Kato especially is the instruction sheet that comes with it. They usually have a table of the parts and numbers and a diagram or two on them. If you don't have one for your train post it and perhaps someone else may have it and can scan it for you and provide it off forum to you.

 

If you have questions or issues on a particular train, just post it and as much particulars or photos of the part/situation and someone will probably have some info or experience on it to share.

 

For translating bits in catalogs and instruction sheets the Google mobile translate app works great. Just snap a pict of it and draw your finger across the bit you want translated ans you get a pretty fair translation to figure out things in diagram and tables on printed materials.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

 

Thanks. I looked. I only have the instruction sheet for one loco. I'll keep them going forward.

 

I'll check out the Google mobile translate app.

[cteno4]

Post the ones you are missing and perhaps one of us can fill it in for you!

 

Jeff

[railsquid]

I was planning on putting traction tires on trains that didn't come with tires originally.

 

That might be a problem as any wheels with traction tyres attached which aren't designed for them will have a different diameter to the others which will make for wobbly running at best.