KuMoYuNi and KuMoNi operations

[ScooterTheGreat]

All three answers are very helpful. So in an essence, they were engines or EMU cars that were just for baggage and mail, and could be run on their own? Can anyone name a situation where a KuMoYuNi would be run on its own? I think it might be worth investing in a KuMoYuNi 82.

[Densha]

In case someone finds himself or herself confused, I merged two similar threads on KuMoNi and KuMoYuNi operations.

[Welshbloke]

Thanks for the information Viktor.

 

> Companies with larger amount of freight usually had their own boxcars or later containers on their own track.

 

I expected that, but thought these cars / services might be used if they ever needed a priority shipment.

 

> Not long ago there was a Tomytec series about these cars.

 

Do you mean as a Tomytec Collection series - I'm not aware of Tomytec having produced any actual complete trains.  I've ordered some Kato and Greenmax cars in the Shonan colors, but haven't run across any Tomix products of this type yet.

 

I may be too late to the party!

 

I would love to see a Kumoyuni 143 in that blue and orange scheme.

 

> You can carry standard freight, baggage and mail on the same passenger train

 

That is still done in some places, even with the very newest of trains!

 

I had ordered a Glacier Express add-on set to combine with my Allegra, but now see that I will also need to obtain some log carrying cars to be prototypical ;-)

 

 

Slightly off topic, but those aren't the Glacier Express. It's the famous spiral on the Bernina line.

 

The Bernina Express uses similar panoramic coaches now, but they're not identical. The Berninabahn was originally a separate company until it was absorbed into the RhB, and retains some oddities. For starters it uses DC electrification rather than the AC of the rest of the current RhB system (the Arosabahn used to be DC too, but was converted), they also have a limit on the length of rolling stock due to the tight clearances and sharp curves on the route. That's why if you look closely at RhB passenger trains you'll notice different coach lengths, some were built shorter to be used on the Bernina line.

[kvp]

Actually nowdays the allegras also run on the core network besides the Arosa and Bernina lines. There are direct cars between Chur on the Albula line and Tirano on the Bernina line. This means the glacier and bernina expresses have overlapping routes. Allegras can also be used to tow both types of panoramic coaches, sometimes in a mixed configuration. (i didn't expect a regio train with 2 bicycle cars to have glacier and bernina cars on the end but it was split before st moritz, with the bernina cars taking the shortcut)

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

All three answers are very helpful. So in an essence, they were engines or EMU cars that were just for baggage and mail, and could be run on their own? Can anyone name a situation where a KuMoYuNi would be run on its own? I think it might be worth investing in a KuMoYuNi 82.

KuMoYuNi and KuMoNi cars are indeed having traction components being installed on them, which allows them to be operated independently (as well as in tandem with other EMUs, like 72 series, 80 series, 111 series, 113 series, 115 series, and so on).

 

KuMoYuNi itself can be described as "motor car equipped with driving cab that carries mail and baggage", as explained from the car type code:

 

Ku (ク) = Driving Car (制御車)

Mo (モ) = Motor Car (電動車)

Yu (ユ) = Mail Car (郵便車)

Ni (ニ) = Baggage Car (荷物車)

 

KuMoNi, however, has no space for transporting mail, hence it can be described as "motor car equipped with driving cab that only carries baggage", which is an explanation of its car type code:

 

Ku (ク) = Driving Car (制御車)

Mo (モ) = Motor Car (電動車)

Ni (ニ) = Baggage Car (荷物車)

 

While those cars were firstly considered as useful for transporting mails and baggage over the rail, however, the motorization put them into surplus state. JNR then decided to modify some of them to become 123 series, some months before JNR was replaced by JR Group on April 1st, 1987. Like its previous nature, those cars were designed to run as single-car units (solely consisting of KuMoHa 123 cars), though they were also still capable to be operated in tandem with other EMUs (mostly 113 and 115 series, though KuMoHa 123-5 and 123-6 were once used in tandem with KuHa 103 on the Hagoromo Branch of Hanwa Line, before being moved to Shimonoseki Depot from Hineno Depot between late 1990s and early 2000s).

Edited September 20, 2015 by SuRoNeFu 25-501

[Sacto1985]

I have to ask this question: were the KuMoYuNi's built back in the days when people in Japan shipped parcels by bringing them to the local railway station (that was the situation for many, many years here in the USA with the Railway Express Agency). Of course, today people in Japan ship parcels by bringing them to a local office of a package delivery company like Yamato Transport and Sagawa Express.

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

I have to ask this question: were the KuMoYuNi's built back in the days when people in Japan shipped parcels by bringing them to the local railway station (that was the situation for many, many years here in the USA with the Railway Express Agency). Of course, today people in Japan ship parcels by bringing them to a local office of a package delivery company like Yamato Transport and Sagawa Express.

Yes, KuMoYuNi and KuMoNi cars were built when shipping parcels and mails in Japan were still using rail transport. However, it was heavily decreased in the 1970s due to motorization, followed by the discontinuation of parcel and mail transport on all of JNR's stations in the 1980s. This is the reason why many of those cars were labeled as "余剰廃車" ("yojou haisha". The English-based railroad terminology counterpart would be "scrapped due to surplus"), same with all of locomotive-hauled parcel and mail cars (like MaNi 60, SuYuNi 50, SuNi 40, etc)...

[miyakoji]

I'm not sure, but I don't think people brought mail and parcels to the station. Postal customers dropped items off at the post office and they were then transported by rail. A lot of major stations have post offices right next to them. Probably helped that they were under the same ownership.

[Welshbloke]

The surprising part is that the KuMoNi weren't converted into passenger vehicles (add more windows and seats, hey presto you have extra capacity for crowded routes) when surplus to requirements. Given that they were electrically compatible with existing passenger EMUs and by the sounds of it could handle a decent tail load.

 

Their British cousins the MLVs were withdrawn before the end of Royal Mail traffic, so moved to become parcels units when their time as luggage vans ran out. There was even a case of one being held up and robbed, after which it was hastily repainted from Royal Mail red in order to make it less obvious that it was carrying postal traffic. They were also involved in a slightly bonkers railtour using a pair of MLVs and a GLV (similar idea, but converted from surplus EMU power cars to provide luggage vans/cab cars and extra power for the Gatwick Express sets with a Class 73 on the other end) to haul a rake of conventional coaches.

 

The two prototype MLVs had a neat trick up their sleeves of not only being able to use vacuum or air braking, but being able to convert between the two. At least one test run was made with an air braked EMU, an MLV, and a few vacuum braked coaches behind. The MLV was able to translate the driver's air brake application to operate the vacuum brakes on the coaches.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Welshbloke

[kvp]

 

The surprising part is that the KuMoNi weren't converted into passenger vehicles (add more windows and seats, hey presto you have extra capacity for crowded routes) when surplus to requirements.

The kumoha 123 series did just that and were used as passenger emu-s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/123_series

 

 

The 123 series was created in 1986 from former KuMoNi 143 baggage cars which had become surplus to requirements. Some units were also converted from KuMoYuNi 147 postal cars (123-40 series, later 123-5000 series), and from KuMoYa 143 tractor cars (123-600 series).

 

My favourite variant: (two former baggage cars used as passenger emu-s sandwitching a former cab car, used as a trailer)

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

The kumoha 123 series did just that and were used as passenger emu-s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/123_series

 

 

My favourite variant: (two former baggage cars used as passenger emu-s sandwitching a former cab car, used as a trailer)

It seems that those cars are KuMoHa 123-5 and 123-6, when they were still employed on Hagoromo Branch Line of Hanwa Line (that spans from Otori station to Higashi-Hagoromo station)...

[Welshbloke]

I love trains like that. The stuff that never makes it into the manufacturer's catalogue because they'd rather show long trains of matching rolling stock. Part of the reason why my other collection is HO scale European 1950s-1990s stock is because of the weird and wonderful train formations you got in Germany at that time, it wasn't uncommon to see a brand new 1980s electric loco, a pair of 1960s Silberlinge, and a pre-war baggage van for example.

 

Also a good use for the random lone EMU coaches you sometimes see on ebay, as they're often cheap. Is that a 103 Series KuHa between them or something else?

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

Is that a 103 Series KuHa between them or something else?

Probably not, I think it is a SaHa 103 unit that displaced from Osaka Loop Line (note that these cars were still not receiving JR West's "magically-proven" life-extension refurbishment) (^_^)

[kvp]

 

I love trains like that. The stuff that never makes it into the manufacturer's catalogue because they'd rather show long trains of matching rolling stock. 

Actually Microace produced the all blue variant with the cab car and a 2 car shorter variant and i have the Tomytec version with this setup. :)

[Welshbloke]

Has anyone seen evidence of an unmodified KuMoNi being used as a power car? Say with a couple of spare EMU coaches to cover for a breakdown, or even attached to an EMU set which has suffered an electrical failure such as a broken pantograph?

[kvp]

There are lots of older videos with kumoya tractors moving broken sets. A lone kumoni has only enough power to move a single loaded trailer at line speed, so a broken down 113 with 2 cab trailers and 2 motors would need 2 tractors (kumoya-s) at least. On the other hand a single power car failure in a 12 car+kumoni set would go mostly unnoticed. A broken pantograph only takes out a single married motor pair. Some videos do show sets in service with at least one main panto down.

 

The general rule was either one or two motors per trailer for most 1xx series trains. Kumoni-s needed their motors to keep this balance in a consist. Independent movement was a bonus and tractor variants could manage more than one empty trailer at reduced speeds. The 123 series was a good example of pure baggage emu power use in service. (one trailer with two power cars)

 

The reason why they were relatively weak is that many of them were ex 101 series cab motors and had the most outdated traction systems from the whole 1xx family.

[SuRoNeFu 25-501]

Also, some of KuMoNi and KuMoYuNi cars were actually part of old EMUs (like 80 series, 40 series, 50 series 72 series, etc) that JNR intended to replace with newer trains. So it was even weaker than the newer trains...

[Welshbloke]

After a bit more digging (inspired by seeing that some places still have stock of the powered Kato KuMoYuNi 74, and it's not that expensive) I came across another diagram on the Kato site:

 

http://www.katomodels.com/product/nmi/kumoya90.shtml

 

My plan with the KuMoYuNi would be to run it with a dummy three car 165 series set, as even without traction tyres it should cope with three coaches. It could also join the long 165 series formation I have planned along with the KuMoNi 83 dummy which arrived yesterday.