Would this actually sell?

[velotrain]

 

 

I was looking through images of Japanese tramway modeling, and came across this.

 

It's a nicely modeled scene and all, but one of the zeros would need to be removed for me to take it seriously.  But then I wondered if perhaps I was underestimating what well-heeled Japanese businessmen would pay for something like this.

[miyakoji]

Good question.  I googled the modeler's name (Miyashita Yoichi) just to see what came up.  This was the first result: http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/sakatsu/item/9784777010219/?s-id=borderless_recommend_item_en .  Maybe he's famous, adding to the price.  I'm much more of a railfan than a modeler, but it seems to me that building a layout (or diorama in this case) is as much fun as running it.

[velotrain]

thanks miyakoji - I'm not about to buy this book with Japanese text, but I will use the name to search for more images.

 

I've seen quite a few military dioramas of roughly comparable quality - to my eye, on eBay for $200-400, so I was surprised at the asking price for this one.  

Maybe some of those skilled guys building military dioramas are chasing the wrong market  ;-)

 

Somehow the figures seem a bit crude compared to the rest of it.  It may just be that almost everything else is done in such muted tones.

[velotrain]

洋一宮下  brings up some very interesting image results.

 

I'd say that his work competes with the best European modeling, and I'm guessing that it's more likely HOj than N scale - or perhaps even O scale.

 

I think Americans (and Canadians) build some very fine model railroads, but for my taste we generally don't create scenes with the same level of atmosphere that some European modelers do.  YMMV

[cteno4]

At $25/hr (not a real pro rate of pay really) that's two weeks work. Reasonable for something like this. When you see stuff like this for $200 on ebay it's someone who is not really charging anything for their time much at all. There are talented folks out there doing this sort of pro level work that don't charge for their time, can miff those pros out there doing the same thing trying to make a living on it...

 

This work get into the professional market where if you have to pay for someone's time usually to produce quality work for sale, or hope to find someone described above.

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

I understand what you're saying Jeff, but for a pro something like this should take no longer than a week - if that.

 

I'm sure that the "pros" who sell on eBay often have a limited repertoire of what they produce, while guys like this make sure every piece is unique, which helps them to ask a higher price for it.  As far as their being miffed at the guys who don't charge as much for their time, that's just the open market system at work.  If they create a brandname for themselves - as this guy obviously has, then they can ask whatever the market will bear.

 

Did you try that kanji search?  Some really exceptional work, and I especially like the photos taken in daylight - although, models and dioramas always look better in natural light.

 

I discovered that some of his structures come from an outfit called Echo Model.

I think their structures are all paper, but they seem very high quality.

Others on the dioramas are clearly custom built from real wood.

 

http://www.echomodel.com/index.php?Ms%20COLLECTION%EF%BD%9E%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E3%81%AE%E9%A2%A8%E6%99%AF%EF%BD%9E

[Darklighter]

I have some of these kits. They look great, but are more difficult to build than Sankei kits.

For station buildings, engine houses etc. see http://www.mscollection.net/index.php?%E8%A3%BD%E5%93%81%E6%A1%88%E5%86%85 (〜Ms+（エムズプラス）〜シリーズ)

[velotrain]

Did you order them directly from Echo?  Looking at their site (translated), it didn't seem like they were set-up for electronic payment.  

 

If you didn't get them direct, where did you order them from?

 

I later realized that both structures in the diorama are from Echo, and perhaps also the details in the market.  Their site mentions that the details are available separately, but then I couldn't see just where.

 

Frankly - I'm not surprised at the difficulty, as they look more sophisticated than Sankei structures.

[ToniBabelony]

People in Japan buy and pay good for these dioramas, as they see them not as layouts, but more as 3D paintings. works of art (which they are), or a display of artisan skill (which is also certainly true).

 

At certain places, you sometimes see these on display for the kids to look at when they get a shot or get examined. For example clinic nearby where I live even has a small LGB layout in the waiting room, as well as very small N-gauge circular layouts in both examination rooms. I'm pretty sure the owner of the clinic has a layout room at home as well.

[bikkuri bahn]

It's like those "ship in the bottle" or full rigged sailing vessel models you see in doctor's offices or corporate boardrooms (or at least the ones I see on TV).

[railsquid]

http://www.medicalart.co.jp/mokei/access.html

 

People in Japan buy and pay good for these dioramas, as they see them not as layouts, but more as 3D paintings. works of art (which they are), or a display of artisan skill (which is also certainly true).

 

At certain places, you sometimes see these on display for the kids to look at when they get a shot or get examined. For example clinic nearby where I live even has a small LGB layout in the waiting room, as well as very small N-gauge circular layouts in both examination rooms. I'm pretty sure the owner of the clinic has a layout room at home as well.

 

I wonder if they were built by this company, which also operates a Hornby dealership?

[ToniBabelony]

I wonder if they were built by this company, which also operates a Hornby dealership?

 

I'll check it out, next time I'm there (which I doubt, as we only visited that clinic for shots for a short time).

[katoftw]

I don't think anyone is questioning the quality of the work involved.  It is a awesome piece of kit.  But it is interesting the asking price compare to almost similar that would've had a zero missing off the end of the asking price.

 

But as you said, if it does get views as a piece of artwork, then the modelers name will increase the asking price.

Edited June 29, 2015 by katoftw

[velotrain]

I don't think anyone is questioning the quality of the work involved.  It is a awesome piece of kit.  But it is interesting the asking price compare to almost similar that would've had a zero missing off the end of the asking price.

 

But as you said, if it does get views as a piece of artwork, then the modelers name will increase the asking price.

 

You did read the original post?  "It's a nicely modeled scene and all, but one of the zeros would need to be removed for me to take it seriously."

[katoftw]

I was agreeing with you.

[cteno4]

Well I guess the answer is yes!

 

Jeff

[Darklighter]

Did you order them directly from Echo?  Looking at their site (translated), it didn't seem like they were set-up for electronic payment.  

 

If you didn't get them direct, where did you order them from?

 

I later realized that both structures in the diorama are from Echo, and perhaps also the details in the market.  Their site mentions that the details are available separately, but then I couldn't see just where.

 

Frankly - I'm not surprised at the difficulty, as they look more sophisticated than Sankei structures.

 

I got mine from http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/sakatsu/ (not much in stock:  http://global.rakuten.com/en/search/?k=%E3%82%A8%E3%83%A0%E3%82%BA&sid=sakatsu&l-id=gs_product_search )

The owner (Mr. Sakamoto) speaks English.

Another shop is http://www.imon.co.jp/webshop/search/category_search_item.php?w=324&x=100&mk=275275 . They have more in stock, but (I guess) you would have to use a forwarding service for international shipping..

These kits are HO scale, by the way.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Darklighter

[velotrain]

I realized they had to be HO from the level of detail, and then noticed a brief mention of it on the MS Collection site.

 

You mentioned they're more difficult than Sankei, so wanted to ask you if the instructions have good graphics - or, do you read Japanese?

 

 

 

 

A related question for anyone.  This photo is labeled MS Collection, and it looks like it's done by Yoichi Miyashita, but I don't know just what the relationship is between him, Echo Model, and MS Collection (which could be his own line - MiyaShita ?).

 

http://www.mscollection.net/swfu/d/m-72-133.jpg

 

What intrigues me, is just where do those fully-spoked bicycles in HO scale come from?  I've seen photo etch for this in 1:35 for military dioramas, but just can't imagine how someone could do this in HO?  I'm aware of the Dutch HO moving bicycles, but they have somewhat crude detail - with zero spokes as I recall.

 

[kvp]

What intrigues me, is just where do those fully-spoked bicycles in HO scale come from?  I've seen photo etch for this in 1:35 for military dioramas, but just can't imagine how someone could do this in HO?  I'm aware of the Dutch HO moving bicycles, but they have somewhat crude detail - with zero spokes as I recall.

Maybe from this set?

http://www.jb-webshop.de/Preiser-10635-H0-Family-on-a-bicycle-trip-1

or this one

http://www.peoplescale.com/Bicycle-Riders-HO-Scale-187-P-10507.htm

[velotrain]

Yup - it looks like the two black-framed bikes from the second set.

 

These must be fairly recent, as I've never seen such a detailed HO bicycle before.

[cteno4]

Always jealous of the detail you can do at HO, but does lead down the spiral of everything having to be at the same detail level and less ability to play with the mind's eye than in N scale. Always trade offs!

 

Jeff

[Darklighter]

You mentioned they're more difficult than Sankei, so wanted to ask you if the instructions have good graphics - or, do you read Japanese?

(Page 1 and 2 of the instructions which consist of 4 pages)

 

There are good graphics, but also lots of explanations in text.

I guess you should be able to figure out what to do from the graphics, the materials included in the kit and the photos of the finished building.

My Japanese reading skills are poor, but I understand a bit.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Darklighter

[katoftw]

My Japanese is poor to non-existent for reading.  But I find no issues with Japanese instructions for any brand/maker to date.  They always have many pictures, and normally everything is labels A,B,C or 1,2,3 etc.  Very easy for English speakers/readers.

[velotrain]

I can't imagine having a problem with any plastic kit, but would think a complex paper-based kit might have Japanese explanations for particular approaches and techniques for getting the best result out of the kit.  

 

This is the case with U.S. wood-based "craftsman" structure kits, which are typically shipped with thick, spiral-bound instruction manuals containing many color images.  Although, I gather some are now sent with the instructions on a CD.  The creators of the kits will often discuss painting and weathering, along with basic assembly.

[kvp]

The British practice is even more advanced. Some peco stuff comes only with a single cardboard with ads on one side and the url of the documentation on the other. On the other hand, the url does contain instruction booklets and lately step by step videos, but i don't know about the shelf life of the online documentation.