Tokyo Metro 13000 series and Tobu 70000 series

[miyakoji]

Metro and Tobu have apparently agreed on a basic design for two upcoming models, the Metro 13000 series and the Tobu 70000 series.  These will be used for services that interline between the Metro Hibiya Line and the Tobu Skytree Line.  Services are currently operated with a mixture of 3- and 5-door cars; these will all be 20m (sorry Toni) 4-door cars with longitudinal seating, run in 7-car formations.  They will come into service from 2016 to 2019.  The link below has an image showing the Metro car at top, the Tobu car in the middle, and then the Tobu car's interior at the bottom.

 

http://railf.jp/news/2015/06/18/100000.html

[ToniBabelony]

(sorry Toni)

 

NOOOOOOOOO~

 

TBH, this was already known for a year or two, so I've had plenty of emotional preparations. 7-car formations is also quite unique (in the Kanto area), so that makes up for the loss. I wonder what will become of the rolling stock that will be retired... I suspect replacement of the aging 8000 types in the Ryōmō area by the 70000 series and the Hibiya line trains being scrapped, or shipping to Indonesia.

[bikkuri bahn]

Pdf for the new rolling stock.  Formation diagram at the bottom.  Note the motor/axle arrangement.  These will use PMSM.

http://www.tokyometro.jp/news/2015/article_pdf/20150617metroNews_g18n91.pdf

[Sacto1985]

I think this is only part of the "freshening" of the commuter train fleet in the Tokyo area in preparation for the 2020 Summer Olympics. Expect announcements from JR East, Toei Subway, Tokyo Metro, Keisei, Tobu, Seibu, Keio, Odakyu, Tokyo and Keikyu in the next two years for new or heavily refurbished trainsets.

 

(A bit off-topic, but I expect soon an announcement from JR East about the long-awaited replacement for the aging 205 and 209 Series EMU's on the Musashino Line.)

[bikkuri bahn]

Nothing new for the Musashino Line, just more 209 series 500 subclass cascaded off the Sobu Line (related to the introduction of the E235 on the Yamanote Line) to replace the remaining 205 series.

Edited June 18, 2015 by bikkuri bahn

[kvp]

That half powered bogie arrangement is not really efficient, but at least power and weight distribuion will be even and having only one motor per bogie means less weight per car. Imho using one motor and driving both wheels would mean the same power consumption but much better traction properties, including better regenerative braking curves. (these cars are A1-1A, while Bo-Bo, Bo-2 and 2-2 were more common in the past and i would suggest B-B as a compromise) Afaik the two trains are identical, just the fronts are different, but these work just like cell phone covers. Also permanent magnet motor technology is sized up modell train tech, but works nicely. I do wonder what will be the demagnetization time and curve of the permanent magnets. (this determines the lifetime of the motors as the permanent magnets slowly degrade in use, which changes the power and speed characteristics of the motors)

[Sacto1985]

Nothing new for the Musashino Line, just more 209 series 500 subclass cascaded off the Sobu Line (related to the introduction of the E235 on the Yamanote Line) to replace the remaining 205 series.

 

However, since most of the 209 Series trainsets were built in the 1990's (and was designed with only an operational life of 15 years), these trainsets are soon approaching the point they need to be retired. That's why I think JR East will within the next 18 months announce that either a new E233 variant or a variant of the E235 now being developed for the Yamanote Line will replace the 209's--especially since the Musashino Line trains will go by a number of the planned venues of the 2020 Summer Olympics.

[E6系]

Hello,

 

It is also touted as futuristic design ... but I don't feel that from the images.  :(

[Jace]

That half powered bogie arrangement is not really efficient, but at least power and weight distribuion will be even and having only one motor per bogie means less weight per car. Imho using one motor and driving both wheels would mean the same power consumption but much better traction properties, including better regenerative braking curves. (these cars are A1-1A, while Bo-Bo, Bo-2 and 2-2 were more common in the past and i would suggest B-B as a compromise) Afaik the two trains are identical, just the fronts are different, but these work just like cell phone covers. Also permanent magnet motor technology is sized up modell train tech, but works nicely. I do wonder what will be the demagnetization time and curve of the permanent magnets. (this determines the lifetime of the motors as the permanent magnets slowly degrade in use, which changes the power and speed characteristics of the motors)

 

With this driving arrangement I'm assuming they'll be using the same bogies as on the Tokyo Metro 1000 series (http://www.nssmc.com/en/tech/report/nssmc/pdf/105-08.pdf). These have a single unpowered steering axle and a single drive axle. The benefit of this arrangement is that you don't need a complicated drive system on a powered, steerable axle. The drawbacks include what you've listed. 

[miyakoji]

How much of an issue is traction (acceleration) for a passenger EMU?

[kvp]

 

The benefit of this arrangement is that you don't need a complicated drive system on a powered, steerable axle. The drawbacks include what you've listed. 

Thanks. This could mean they can get better traction if the mounting point is towards the powered axle, so more of the weight is on the powered wheel. Btw, the B arrangement i mentioned can use car mounted motors and cardan drives to power both wheels while leaving them steerable. This was used on some ancient hungarian trams. (the A-1 1-A arrangement was also used around the end of the 19th century for streetcars and some express subway stock, with smaller wheels for the unpowered axles http://www.villamosok.hu/metro/jarmu/favold/fav20d.jpg that can be compared with the normal all stops commuter stock http://www.villamosok.hu/metro/jarmu/favold/fav1x.jpg which had lower top speed but better acceleration)

 

 

How much of an issue is traction (acceleration) for a passenger EMU?

It depends on the service pattern. A long distance train with few stops don't have to accelerate fast, but a high speed commuter train or any train that runs mixed into high speed commuter traffic needs a high acceleration and deceleration to attain higher average speeds, by getting to and from line speed to a complete stop. This is why the usual JNR/JR mix was 2 power cars for one trailer car for many fast commuter trains or why some companies run all power car consists. Powering half of the wheels means a 1 to 1 overall mix, giving the same result as using motor-trailer pairs, which was also common in the past. The line also matters, as a more hilly line needs more power to climb steeper sections than a mostly flat line. Sometimes a company decided to make a 50% powered set as a default type and upgrade them to 100% power for steeper lines by powering both bogies.

Edited June 19, 2015 by kvp

[ayokoi]

Tokyo Metro 13000 series left the Kinki Sharyo factory on June 11 for Koshigaya Freight Terminal (Musashino Line,Saitama Pref).

 

[katoftw]

I look at the side of these and see 221/223/225/321 series trains.

[bikkuri bahn]

I look at the side of these and see 221/223/225/321 series trains.

And thank goodness for that, otherwise everything running in Tokyo would look like an e231/Tokyu 5000 series from the side.

[bikkuri bahn]

Railfans in the US often chase a particular train by car; in Japan, you can do it using a series of trains. Suffice to say I prefer the Japanese method

:-)

[railsquid]

I don't think you'd have much luck chasing trains by car in the areas where most Japanese trains run anyway.

 

Anyway (not quite sure where train chasing comes into this thread) Tokyo Metro's newer trains, e.g. the new Ginza line ones and the 10000 series, are quite nicely designed with a bit of character which sets them apart inside and outside from the generic E231-variants.

Edited June 12, 2016 by railsquid

[korat]

Twitter photos from user @yuuji_nsk appear to show the cab ends uncovered for the first time.

 

http://twitter.com/yuuji_nsk/status/748388731476934656

http://twitter.com/yuuji_nsk/status/748389535663394816

 

Aside from a second windscreen wiper for the emergency exit door and different accent colors (already seen on the body stripes during delivery), pretty much about what you'd expect from the original renderings.

[Robert46]

Railfans in the US often chase a particular train by car; in Japan, you can do it using a series of trains. Suffice to say I prefer the Japanese method

:-)

 

Well, this is so true.. but unfortunately this can only happen in Japan as the only country operating so many types of trains with so many connected lines... :D

[bikkuri bahn]

The tracks at Kita Senju Station are already marked for stopping points for the seven car 13000 series trains, to aid drivers.

[bill937ca]

Tobu 70000 in the process of delivery yesterday (February 25).  Video by kaibajct.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRdCOFZyNVY#t=0.543604

 

 

Video by となりのもぐら .

 

 

 

Video by amateur7in7suita.

 

 

Video by tsu1112

 

Edited February 27, 2017 by bill937ca

[miyakoji]

"Unboxing" of a new train.  Way more interesting than unboxing of video games

 

by azumatakeshi